[jonfonts]

Have you tried it already? How did it run?



Need to tune fuel richer and add ignition advance to give it fair shot as comp to pump premium.

I haven't on this platform yet, but E85 works the same anywhere. It especially takes advantage of high compression engines where 91 limits the torque line, especially at lower RPMs. I'm not expecting much high end power but there should still be some, and aside from that, it keeps the engine happier.

 

[marc99]

Well, we are all ears! (as they say!)
thx!

 

[jonfonts]

Well, we are all ears! (as they say!)
thx!

Word, thanks! I'll try to provide some good back to back info. We'll see if it happens this year though as I kind of went overboard this year on my budget lmao

 

[ME-Motorsports]

@ME-Motorsports

Question. The bug is itching, and though I'm planning on dropping the dough on next years budget, I might bite now. Is stock a wideband or narrowband? I want to keep it closed loop if I could, if not, hybrid, but I'm trying to stay away from full time open loop as my main goal is to switch to E85. Also, I can't find info about knock sensors, does it come with one? If not, are you just using cans? Lastly, what are the stock IDCs sitting at? Trying to gauge how much headroom the fuel system has.

Hey Jon

Stock is a narrowband O2 sensor meaning it only works in a narrow range of RPM and TPS. If you keep closed loop fuel control active, it will lean out the fuel mix and override any fuel changes be it made in the ECU or with a piggyback fuel controller. If you're running E85 and it leans out the mix, you may be in for a bad time.

I don't see any reference to an OEM knock sensor on this model in the PDF service manual just CTRL + F for 'knock' - but tuning that way, relying on the knock sensor to retard timing if pushed too far, is not ideal either. As it will pull timing, reset, pull timing, reset and you will see this on your power by (close to or similar to) a sinusoidal wave with the power increasing/decreasing in a specific frequency until detonation has stopped. Especially if using pump E85 and the variance it has pump to pump depending on the month and the blend they are using (summer or winter) and what the actual ethanol content is. (Yes, if you use pump E85 you will want to buy an ethanol tester and test before dumping it in the tank especially if advancing the timing any).

While you can use det cans to set timing, I prefer the dyno as you'll see the power taper off and then can roll back a bit and a little more to give yourself some safety margin. I really haven't pushed this fuel system too much but I don't see it really having the extra throughput needed to deliver the anywhere from 30-40% fuel it will need to properly run E85 or something like VP C85 which is a consistent 85% ethanol blend. Again, I haven't tested it so I can't say for certain if 1) the pump can handle that extra fuel flow and 2) if the injectors can actually deliver it efficiently without maxing them out.


:::EDIT::: Just noticed your from MN too (recently moved from back home in MN out to Arizona) - if you're down by the cities, stop by St. Boni Motorsports and talk with Doug Lofgren. He is a cornucopia of knowledge and experience and has done a few E85 bikes.

 

[jonfonts]

Hey Jon

Stock is a narrowband O2 sensor meaning it only works in a narrow range of RPM and TPS. If you keep closed loop fuel control active, it will lean out the fuel mix and override any fuel changes be it made in the ECU or with a piggyback fuel controller. If you're running E85 and it leans out the mix, you may be in for a bad time.

Yea, I understand, just making sure what options I have. I want to see if we can at least have a hybrid setup.

I don't see any reference to an OEM knock sensor on this model in the PDF service manual just CTRL + F for 'knock' - but tuning that way, relying on the knock sensor to retard timing if pushed too far, is not ideal either. As it will pull timing, reset, pull timing, reset and you will see this on your power by (close to or similar to) a sinusoidal wave with the power increasing/decreasing in a specific frequency until detonation has stopped. Especially if using pump E85 and the variance it has pump to pump depending on the month and the blend they are using (summer or winter) and what the actual ethanol content is. (Yes, if you use pump E85 you will want to buy an ethanol tester and test before dumping it in the tank especially if advancing the timing any).

There's a couple stations here that have consistent E85 levels. The knock sensor is more to have a safety margin incase it is a bad batch of gas.

While you can use det cans to set timing, I prefer the dyno as you'll see the power taper off and then can roll back a bit and a little more to give yourself some safety margin. I really haven't pushed this fuel system too much but I don't see it really having the extra throughput needed to deliver the anywhere from 30-40% fuel it will need to properly run E85 or something like VP C85 which is a consistent 85% ethanol blend. Again, I haven't tested it so I can't say for certain if 1) the pump can handle that extra fuel flow and 2) if the injectors can actually deliver it efficiently without maxing them out.

I think the injectors should be big enough, don't know about the pump yet. I guess that's why I was wondering if we have any reference to Injector Duty Cycle readings.

:::EDIT::: Just noticed your from MN too (recently moved from back home in MN out to Arizona) - if you're down by the cities, stop by St. Boni Motorsports and talk with Doug Lofgren. He is a cornucopia of knowledge and experience and has done a few E85 bikes.

Cool!! Will do! And aww, of course Arizona lol.