[Kiwi Rider]

Thanks Anthony, glad we caught you at the quiet end of the season.
I managed to understand all of that! Yeah it seems to point towards the wrong map select as the Woolich guys in OZ suggested in their e-mail.

I will see how much of a pain it is to get at the AIS/pair valve on my bike and disconnect it temporarily and see the code still lingers even after it has been disabled in the software.Quick question though, when the tuner enabled that option, did they physically disconnect the pair valve and block it off? Or did they leave it electrically connected and block off the ports? Curious as to maybe if it was disabled and still connected possibly causing some feedback/interference...

I had removed the whole set up and blocked off where it goes into the rocker cover myself prior as part of my de-cluttering/lightening mods. See here:
https://www.ninja400riders.com/forum/149-how-diy/1723-pair-valve-removal.html

I'll also ask Woolich about a few things regarding the gearing to see if we can maybe disable that fault code and PIDs just outright. Not sure if that will do anything for the gear indicator though. Same for the evap/purge components removal. I think I also saw someone request fuel cut.... all things I will bring up to him.

That was me wanting to disable the decel fuel cut off.
Here's what I did with the purge valve:
https://www.ninja400riders.com/forum/149-how-diy/1653-evap-canister-removal.html

I can see I need to add resistors to both the PAIR and purge v/v plugs before my next attempt.

 

[ME-Motorsports]

Thanks Anthony, glad we caught you at the quiet end of the season.
I managed to understand all of that! Yeah it seems to point towards the wrong map select as the Woolich guys in OZ suggested in their e-mail.



I had removed the whole set up and blocked off where it goes into the rocker cover myself prior as part of my de-cluttering/lightening mods. See here:
https://www.ninja400riders.com/forum/149-how-diy/1723-pair-valve-removal.html





That was me wanting to disable the decel fuel cut off.
Here's what I did with the purge valve:
https://www.ninja400riders.com/forum/149-how-diy/1653-evap-canister-removal.html

I can see I need to add resistors to both the PAIR and purge v/v plugs before my next attempt.

The pair valve, you don't need resistors - a simple wire does the trick. Done this on both of my ZX-10Rs as I got the bike before the software was out/feature available. It's not looking for a resistance value, the circuit only concerns itself with open/closed. The resistance checks you see in the service manual and commonly referred to online is a check on the coil inside the switching valve itself to ensure that is okay and functioning

EVAP/Purge system - whole other can of worms. But yeah I'll add it in my Xmas list for the EX400 when I talk to Woolich tonight.

 

[ME-Motorsports]

For the individual asking about there being differences between MS0 and MS1 in the ECUs.

I ran comparisons on the files in the software, ECU part numbers 21175-1314, 21175-1331, 21175-1332, 21175-1371 and 21175-1373

There was only one ECU that had differences between the two maps; 21175-1314 - all the others were 100% identical between both MS positions for fuel and timing.

So here are the differences between MS1 (what the bike normally runs in) and MS0 (what the bike would run in if that pin/connector are jumped out)

Fueling - this is a percentage of fuel difference in MS0 compared to MS1. So a + number means the MS0 map would be more rich (more fuel), a - number means the MS0 map would be more lean (less fuel)

Timing - this is a value difference in ignition timing values from MS0 compared to MS1. So a + number means the MS0 map runs more points/degrees of timing (advance) while a - number means the MS0 map runs less points/degrees of timing (retard).

 

[Ginger rider nz]

For the individual asking about there being differences between MS0 and MS1 in the ECUs.

I ran comparisons on the files in the software, ECU part numbers 21175-1314, 21175-1331, 21175-1332, 21175-1371 and 21175-1373

There was only one ECU that had differences between the two maps; 21175-1314 - all the others were 100% identical between both MS positions for fuel and timing.

So here are the differences between MS1 (what the bike normally runs in) and MS0 (what the bike would run in if that pin/connector are jumped out)

Fueling - this is a percentage of fuel difference in MS0 compared to MS1. So a + number means the MS0 map would be more rich (more fuel), a - number means the MS0 map would be more lean (less fuel)
View attachment 5045

Timing - this is a value difference in ignition timing values from MS0 compared to MS1. So a + number means the MS0 map runs more points/degrees of timing (advance) while a - number means the MS0 map runs less points/degrees of timing (retard).
View attachment 5047

Cheers for that

I was trawling through the forum and I see @kiwirider has the 21175-1314 ECU so I'm going to presume I do as well as we are both in the same country I'll double check after work to be sure.

So to the untrained eye the ms0 map looks more aggressive is that right ?
Just wondering if you had the power figures for both of those maps ?

Also cheers for taking the time to answer our questions it's really appreciated

 

[ME-Motorsports]

Cheers for that

I was trawling through the forum and I see @kiwirider has the 21175-1314 ECU so I'm going to presume I do as well as we are both in the same country I'll double check after work to be sure.

So to the untrained eye the ms0 map looks more aggressive is that right ?
Just wondering if you had the power figures for both of those maps ?

Also cheers for taking the time to answer our questions it's really appreciated

Yes, 'aggressive' in the sense that the values have increased. I honestly probably wouldn't run them in my bike. I mean 50% fuel and +15 degrees of timing is very aggressive probably to the point where running it would be detrimental to the bike. So I probably wouldn't do it to my own bike. Quite honestly I really couldn't give you any frame of reference what that map would do powerwise in relation to the stock image already inside of the ECU that it currently runs on.

 

[Ginger rider nz]

Yes, 'aggressive' in the sense that the values have increased. I honestly probably wouldn't run them in my bike. I mean 50% fuel and +15 degrees of timing is very aggressive probably to the point where running it would be detrimental to the bike. So I probably wouldn't do it to my own bike. Quite honestly I really couldn't give you any frame of reference what that map would do powerwise in relation to the stock image already inside of the ECU that it currently runs on.

Does kind of make me wonder why kawasaki went to the effort of putting that map on there in the first place

 

[Kiwi Rider]

For the individual asking about there being differences between MS0 and MS1 in the ECUs.

I ran comparisons on the files in the software, ECU part numbers 21175-1314, 21175-1331, 21175-1332, 21175-1371 and 21175-1373

There was only one ECU that had differences between the two maps; 21175-1314 - all the others were 100% identical between both MS positions for fuel and timing.

So here are the differences between MS1 (what the bike normally runs in) and MS0 (what the bike would run in if that pin/connector are jumped out)

Fueling - this is a percentage of fuel difference in MS0 compared to MS1. So a + number means the MS0 map would be more rich (more fuel), a - number means the MS0 map would be more lean (less fuel)
View attachment 5045

Timing - this is a value difference in ignition timing values from MS0 compared to MS1. So a + number means the MS0 map runs more points/degrees of timing (advance) while a - number means the MS0 map runs less points/degrees of timing (retard).
View attachment 5047

Thanks for that. So am I getting this right:
The other four ECU's to ours still have 2 maps (MSO & MS1) but both are identical and the default map is MS1.
So lets assume this is the full power 36kW Maps.

Now, our (UK, Europe, Australia & NZ) 1314 ECU with the restriction down to 33.4kW has a different Map in MS1 to limit the power, but the MS0 map is an aggressive map that is different again to the 36kW map? ie. A third map?

 

[ME-Motorsports]

Thanks for that. So am I getting this right:
The other four ECU's to ours still have 2 maps (MSO & MS1) but both are identical and the default map is MS1.
So lets assume this is the full power 36kW Maps.

Now, our (UK, Europe, Australia & NZ) 1314 ECU with the restriction down to 33.4kW has a different Map in MS1 to limit the power, but the MS0 map is an aggressive map that is different again to the 36kW map? ie. A third map?

Let me clarify a bit.

The ECUs listed, they were compared to only themselves and their respective MS0 MS1 maps. I did no comparison of say -1134 to -1371 and so on so forth.

I don't think the MS0 map contained in the -1314 ECU is meant to be any form of deregulation of power output for license tiers, emissions, etc. I think it is simply an ECU map that maybe Kawi was messing with and forgot to change back to make it the same as it's MS1 map or didn't care or think about since not most people go this in depth on the bike. If anyone has a bike with the -1314 ECU, they can simply jump out the pins at the KDS connector and see for themselves how it would run. My guess is it would be a downgrade from the stock calibration contained in the MS1 map that the bike was intended to use.

I will do a comparison between ECU part numbers here in a bit.

 

[ME-Motorsports]

Does kind of make me wonder why kawasaki went to the effort of putting that map on there in the first place

A lot of times it isn't uncommon for a manufacturer to load multiple maps during design in an effort to save time. So instead of having to burn a whole new ECU image to test changes in engine characteristics, they could in this example, simply jump out the connector and switch to that second map. That one instance it may not save a whole lot of time, but over the months of developing a bike and developing a factory calibration, it all adds up. Why the didn't change it back to mirror the MS1 map like in all the other ECUs I looked at, I can't speak for Kawi in those regards. My guess is a slip up or they just didn't think it was something that people would pick up on or ultimately use.

 

[ZED]

For the individual asking about there being differences between MS0 and MS1 in the ECUs.

Fueling -
View attachment 5045

Timing -
View attachment 5047

What are the axis of your graphs?

 

[ME-Motorsports]

What are the axis of your graphs?

RPM is the Y Axis Throttle position is X Axis

 

[AZFox]

A lot of times it isn't uncommon for a manufacturer to load multiple maps during design in an effort to save time. So instead of having to burn a whole new ECU image to test changes in engine characteristics, they could in this example, simply jump out the connector and switch to that second map. That one instance it may not save a whole lot of time, but over the months of developing a bike and developing a factory calibration, it all adds up. Why the didn't change it back to mirror the MS1 map like in all the other ECUs I looked at, I can't speak for Kawi in those regards. My guess is a slip up or they just didn't think it was something that people would pick up on or ultimately use.

Just curious: Can maps be switched between S0 and S1 on-the-fly? I'm wondering if, for example, a "sport mode" and "eco mode" (or track mode/street mode or whatever) can be programmed in and selectable by the rider, either while riding or when the engine is off.

 

[Kiwi Rider]

Just curious: Can maps be switched between S0 and S1 on-the-fly? I'm wondering if, for example, a "sport mode" and "eco mode" (or track mode/street mode or whatever) can be programmed in and selectable by the rider, either while riding or when the engine is off.

v v From post #37

Yes, the ECU has the ability to store two maps simultaneously and offers the option to toggle between those maps on the fly via the use of an external source by using a toggle switch to send a pin on the ECU to a ground reference.

 

[ME-Motorsports]

Just curious: Can maps be switched between S0 and S1 on-the-fly? I'm wondering if, for example, a "sport mode" and "eco mode" (or track mode/street mode or whatever) can be programmed in and selectable by the rider, either while riding or when the engine is off.

Yep, Kiwi requoted me, but based on the testing on my bike, I can swap between the MS0 and MS1 on the fly. So what you're saying having a sport mode in one and a track mode in the other selectable on the fly without having to power cycle the bike is 100% doable through Woolich's tools available.

 

[ZED]

RPM is the Y Axis Throttle position is X Axis

Pretty sure that's backwards to what FlashTune does (which is why I was asking), but thanks for your response.

Also, what are the increments of each column? The values pictured don't mean a whole lot unless they're in correlation to the RPM's and throttle percentage.

 

[ME-Motorsports]

Pretty sure that's backwards to what FlashTune does (which is why I was asking), but thanks for your response.

Also, what are the increments of each column? The values pictured don't mean a whole lot unless they're in correlation to the RPM's and throttle percentage.

Not really concerned with what 'they' do to be honest. If you can see 'their' software values, the breakouts will be the same in WRT; OEMs define the bounds and limits of ECU tuning tables and whatever reflashing software you use, they are all doing the same thing and simply exposing the exact same tables definitions, limits and intervals. So why company A decides to do RPM (x axis) vs TPS (y axis) or TPS (x axis) vs RPM (y axis) is beyond me as each will have their own reason as to why the do what they do.

(Sorry, not trying to be rude or off putting, but title of the thread is 'ECU flash using Woolich Racing software'. And since I deal with Woolich Racing software exclusively, I cannot comment to how 'their' stuff works as I would never use it.)

 

[ZED]

Not really concerned with what 'they' do to be honest. If you can see 'their' software values, the breakouts will be the same in WRT; OEMs define the bounds and limits of ECU tuning tables and whatever reflashing software you use, they are all doing the same thing and simply exposing the exact same tables definitions, limits and intervals. So why company A decides to do RPM (x axis) vs TPS (y axis) or TPS (x axis) vs RPM (y axis) is beyond me as each will have their own reason as to why the do what they do.

(Sorry, not trying to be rude or off putting, but title of the thread is 'ECU flash using Woolich Racing software'. And since I deal with Woolich Racing software exclusively, I cannot comment to how 'their' stuff works as I would never use it.)

It was just unclear as to what each axis represented originally, as like you said, they all have their own reasoning as to why it's different, so was getting clarification - that's all.

Thanks for clearing that up

 

[Ginger rider nz]

I was re reading this thread and realised you had put a quickshifter on is that a woolich product ? And would it work only with the factory rearsets or after market ones as well ?
I was also looking at the woolich racing channel on you tube and seen things like launch control and warm up modes is it possible to add features like that to the ninja 400?

 

[ME-Motorsports]

I was re reading this thread and realised you had put a quickshifter on is that a woolich product ? And would it work only with the factory rearsets or after market ones as well ?
I was also looking at the woolich racing channel on you tube and seen things like launch control and warm up modes is it possible to add features like that to the ninja 400?

Yep, all installed, all working; launch control, pit limiter and quickshifter. Sensor works in GP or STD shift and will work with any rearset provided the correct shift rod is used (they provide one for your setup). Quickshifter setup has far more adjustability than anything out there (that I am aware of).

Warm up can't be done, the bike doesn't have ride by wire (RBW). Without RBW that and autoblip downshift can't be done.

 

[Kiwi Rider]

The pair valve, you don't need resistors - a simple wire does the trick. Done this on both of my ZX-10Rs as I got the bike before the software was out/feature available. It's not looking for a resistance value, the circuit only concerns itself with open/closed.

I put a piece of wire in there today to close the circuit but it didnt work so I plugged the Pair Valve back in and it still showed error code 64.
Do you have to disconnect your battery or something to clear the error code or run the bike for a while or something perhaps?