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... All interesting info, and with the spears mounts we can go up 5 and 10 mm, of course changing the swingarm angle
This is the best info I've seen about correct swingarm angle. Go to 1hr22min mark. I used this to set my SV up.


Looks like it needs to be a 11- on up from what I can tell, so 2011 - 2019 rear shock
I put a 2010 GSXR600 shock in my old GSXR400 race bike and it had eyes both ends. Was pretty much a direct swap, not too surprising as they were both Gixxers.
Here's a pic of one for sale here in NZ:
https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/parts-for-sale/suspension/listing-2176944645.htm
 
Discussion starter · #22 · (Edited)
Unfortunately I never made it on track. Was feeling pain on my drive to track that morning. Left side back. Ureter spasms from a kidney stone. I still have a 2mm & a 12mm stone in my left kidney. Well I guess the 2mm decided to drop into the ureter. Stopped in Walgreens in Millville for Ibuprofen. Sucked down 800mg and pain went up. Got to Lightning and talked to John with N2 and told him my situation. He was great and offered credit. Puked twice before I got home. Went to ER and passed the stone. I am under the care of a urologist. Had ureteroscopy earlier this year for another big stone. I've had lithotripsy multiple times. So now I have to wait until 07.14 T-Bolt to get bike on track.


With a cold GSX-R shock last Saturday, I got right at 20mm sag loaded with myself and no track gear (leathers, helmet etc...). I weigh around 185. No adjustments made to Pre-load. Comp & Rebound set in middle adjustments. The GSX-R '11+ shock is alittle shorter eye-eye then the OEM N4 shock. SPEARS ride height adjusters help make up the difference. But I am NO suspension Guru.


Also, I do have the FRANDO radial MC on my bike. I have a Brembo MC on my GSX-R. I know a lot of ppl will cry FRANDO copied Brembo but they do not look identical. FRANDO got a positive write-up in Britains FASTBIKES mag. An editors brother raced his 675 with one and gave it a thumbs up. The FRANDO radial MC was around $159 shipped to me in PA. FRANDO is in Taiwan, not china. I also have the FRANDO radial brake caliper adapter but not on the bike yet. Works with 100mm bolt spread radial calipers. Another option other then SPEARS Brembo NON-Radial option. Brembo 40mm calipers are not cheap even used on eBay. Brembo radial calipers are cheaper & more plentiful. SVRacing should be coming out with an adapter for the Tokico/Nissin calipers. I guess if you race these options may not be palatable/legal.


I did find another keyless gas cap option on eBay that I like a lot better then the first one I purchased. It had support bolt channels/towers down to the gas tank and was around $35.


I have the MotoRicambiXP bodywork on the bike. I would NOT recommend this brand. Belly pan was a nightmare. I can only guess manufacture variances. Uppers went on great. No issues. Belly pan I had to butcher. Seems like left side mid is short. Gianluca was not sympathetic. Even posted on YouTube for him to see issues. No joy. I have a HINDLE full exhaust so that is not the issue. Stick with AB.


My N4:
Dunlop Q3+
FRANDO 15mm radial mc
Brake line
K-Tech springs 80/85 (on recommend from K-Tech)
Chinese Pre-Load adjusters (spacers cut for both adj & springs)
WC clip-ons
WC Keyless ignition
TYGA steering stops
TYGA front axle sliders
WC frame sliders (race-cut)
R6 throttle tube
SPEARS clutch return spring
KAWASAKI warrantied NEW clutch
MacGyver Kickstand bypass (cut off)
Chinese keyless gas cap
Hindle full exhaust (no re-map per WC rep)
TYGA exhaust hanger
Vortex rear-sets
SPEARS ride height adjuster
'11+ GSX-R 600/750 OEM shock
MotoRicambiXP bodywork (almost all)


Waiting to install:
SPEARS clutch bits & bobs
FRANDO radial caliper adapter
 
Unfortunately I never made it on track. Was feeling pain on my drive to track that morning. Left side back. Ureter spasms from a kidney stone. I still have a 2mm & a 12mm stone in my left kidney. Well I guess the 2mm decided to drop into the ureter. Stopped in Walgreens in Millville for Ibuprofen. Sucked down 800mg and pain went up. Got to Lightning and talked to John with N2 and told him my situation. He was great and offered credit. Puked twice before I got home. Went to ER and passed the stone. I am under the care of a urologist. Had ureteroscopy earlier this year for another big stone. I've had lithotripsy multiple times. So now I have to wait until 07.14 T-Bolt to get bike on track.


With a cold GSX-R shock last Saturday, I got right at 20mm sag loaded with myself and no track gear (leathers, helmet etc...). I weigh around 185. No adjustments made to Pre-load. Comp & Rebound set in middle adjustments. The GSX-R '11+ shock is alittle shorter eye-eye then the OEM N4 shock. SPEARS ride height adjusters help make up the difference. But I am NO suspension Guru.


Also, I do have the FRANDO radial MC on my bike. I have a Brembo MC on my GSX-R. I know a lot of ppl will cry FRANDO copied Brembo but they do not look identical. FRANDO got a positive write-up in Britains FASTBIKES mag. An editors brother raced his 675 with one and gave it a thumbs up. The FRANDO radial MC was around $159 shipped to me in PA. FRANDO is in Taiwan, not china. I also have the FRANDO radial brake caliper adapter but not on the bike yet. Works with 100mm bolt spread radial calipers. Another option other then SPEARS Brembo NON-Radial option. Brembo 40mm calipers are not cheap even used on eBay. Brembo radial calipers are cheaper & more plentiful. SVRacing should be coming out with an adapter for the Tokico/Nissin calipers. I guess if you race these options may not be palatable/legal.


I did find another keyless gas cap option on eBay that I like a lot better then the first one I purchased. It had support bolt channels/towers down to the gas tank and was around $35.


I have the MotoRicambiXP bodywork on the bike. I would NOT recommend this brand. Belly pan was a nightmare. I can only guess manufacture variances. Uppers went on great. No issues. Belly pan I had to butcher. Seems like left side mid is short. Gianluca was not sympathetic. Even posted on YouTube for him to see issues. No joy. I have a HINDLE full exhaust so that is not the issue. Stick with AB.


My N4:
Dunlop Q3+
FRANDO 15mm radial mc
Brake lines
K-Tech springs 80/85 (on recommend from K-Tech)
Chinese Pre-Load adjusters (spacers cut for both adj & springs)
WC clip-ons
WC Keyless ignition
TYGA steering stops
TYGA front axle sliders
WC frame sliders (race-cut)
R6 throttle tube
SPEARS clutch return spring
KAWASAKI warrantied NEW clutch
MacGyver Kickstand bypass (cut off)
Chinese keyless gas cap
Hindle full exhaust (no re-map per WC rep)
TYGA exhaust hanger
Vortex rear-sets
SPEARS ride height adjuster
'11+ GSX-R 600/750 OEM shock
MotoRicambiXP bodywork (almost all)


Waiting to install:
SPREARS clutch bits & bobs
FRANDO radial caliper adapter

So sorry about the kidney stones, that sucks!!
Also sucks about the bodywork.

Sounds like a pretty good setup you have going...sometimes, someone has to be the for runner on the cheap stuff to find out what works, and what does not.

I sometimes like doing that myself, so others can benefit.

I like the Frando caliper mount....I might look into that.....thought about running another R6 brembo master up front since I had such wonderful results on my SV with one, steel lines and a radial caliper......not sure if I want to turn the 400 into another corner carving, track weapon...or if I might just wait to see what happens and what ends up being the Aprilia RS 660 though.......
 
This is the best info I've seen about correct swingarm angle. Go to 1hr22min mark. I used this to set my SV up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3xdM8E_q-I

This video is great as it also addresses the debate about lowering a bike and how most people say it does nothing at all, or I could not tell any difference, it felt better.
I also like the great 80's mecha anime cartoon music at the beginning.


I get it, if you are too short, you have to do something, rather than nothing...especially if its your only option to ride at all...but yes, it does change, and as only fractions of a degree can mean the difference, it can make a big, big difference....now for those of us that are slow....we still stay slow :grin:


So what is being slow, versus being slower, if you are already the slowest guy out there, lol....just have fun.
 
This video is great as it also addresses the debate about lowering a bike and how most people say it does nothing at all, or I could not tell any difference, it felt better.
After I did the measurements it turned out my swing arm angle was too great. This can be the trouble with aftermarket shocks that are adjustable for length, the previous owner had got a bit carried away and extended it too much. 14mm longer than the OEM shock.
Plus I'd been experimenting with shorter dog bones that only added to the issue.
Reducing the shock length by 4mm got me down to 12.7 degrees.
I need to raise the rear of my belly pan a bit though as I've got some grinding going on at full lean. :biggrin:

Regarding 'slow' riders: An old boy in the pits told me this last summer when I was struggling at the back of the pack in the Nationals.
'The slowest rider out on track is still faster than the most vocal spectator.' :grin:
 
After I did the measurements it turned out my swing arm angle was too great. This can be the trouble with aftermarket shocks that are adjustable for length, the previous owner had got a bit carried away and extended it too much. 14mm longer than the OEM shock.
Plus I'd been experimenting with shorter dog bones that only added to the issue.
Reducing the shock length by 4mm got me down to 12.7 degrees.
I need to raise the rear of my belly pan a bit though as I've got some grinding going on at full lean. :biggrin:

Regarding 'slow' riders: An old boy in the pits told me this last summer when I was struggling at the back of the pack in the Nationals.
'The slowest rider out on track is still faster than the most vocal spectator.' :grin:
very interesting. stock, according to Spears is 9.5 and with their adjustable plates you can get to 11.3...how the heck would one get to that height, adjustable shock + ride height adjusters...man, how far were the forks down in the tripe to correct a crazy 500cc GP bike bucking bronco rake???!?!?!
 
I swapped out the stock shock with a current Gen GSX-R 600/750 shock. Was actually a lot easier then I thought. Got the bike up on the frame stand. Took some measurements first. Took off rear wheel. Got the impact driver out and removed the stock shock. Both the stock and the GSXR shock run M10 bolts upper & lower and I used the stock bolts. One bolt is longer then the other so mark them. Fitted the new GSXR shock in. Upper mount is dead on. NO fenagling. Lower mount just needs 2 M10 washers to take up some slop. The GSXR shock is narrower on the lower mount the stock shock. Looks like plenty of clearance. GSXR spring is wider but seems to clear all+. First blush lowered back end by 5/8 ". Will check twice. I bought the SPEARS ride height plates so they will go on when I figure out how much I truly lost (5/8"?). Or make adjustable dogbones out of rose joints and threaded rod. Or Soupy's makes adjustable ride height dogbones.
I believe my original post stated with the GSX-R shock in the N4 the bike sat approx. 3/8" lower but I may be incorrect. Not sure how many mm.
Ok I bought a 11-17 GSXR 6/750 rear shock, measured eye to eye with a tape measure and converted it to mm.
I came up with 311.15 mm when converted to milimeters.

So with that being said, and stock at 320mm:

5/8" = 15.875 mm
3/8" = 9.525 mm

Shorter by 3/8" is our winner as that puts us at 320.675, 5/8 would be too much.....

So using the Spears and raising 10mm gets us 321.15, and might get us from the stock 9.5 swingarm angle to about 9.7/9.8 swingarm angle.

If only the adjusters gave us another 5mm for +5, +10 and +15mm, give a 3rd adjustment with stock shock lenght of 12.3 more in that perfect sweet spot with an adjustable shock like the OHLIN's.
Then with the GSXR shock we could get that swingarm angle of more like 10.7 ish.
So I guess every little bit helps, and we should be able to drop the front some to help out back....

If I can measure the stock shock eye to eye and confirm the difference, then I can be 100% sure.
 
Discussion starter · #29 · (Edited)
Do you think the GSXR shock is a viable economical option with the ride height bits from SPEARS? I should be at Thunderbolt next Sunday 07.14. I think I am a tad higher then stock now using the lower ride height option. Does that line up with what you see?
 
...Then with the GSXR shock we could get that swingarm angle of more like 10.7 ish.
So I guess every little bit helps, and we should be able to drop the front some to help out back....

If I can measure the stock shock eye to eye and confirm the difference, then I can be 100% sure.
This is where it can be confusing. Lowering the front steepens your steering rake angle and reduces your trail and all those good things that aid quicker turn it BUT it actually reduces your swing arm angle and worsens your pro squat/anti squat equation. So best to drop the front first and then start crunching the numbers from there to work out what you need to do shock length wise to improve your swing arm angle.

Ps. I just measured my OEM shock as it's sitting on the shelf gathering dust. 321mm eye to eye centres.
 
According to Racetech the GSXR 600 rear shock spring rate is 10.1 kg/mm and the 750 is 10.5 kg/mm.
Showa 40 mm

Unknown what the 400 is stock...........
It was shown in some official Kawasaki Z400 release info where they showed the difference in spring rates between the Z and the Ninja. Someone posted it on here but I dang well cant find it now. It's the only time I've seen it listed anywhere.
I have the figure of 8.6 kg/mm in my head though, which sounds about right. I have a K Tech spring of rate 80 N/mm which converts to 8.15 kg/mm and it's a bit softer than the standard spring.
 
What about flipping the upper bracket it bolts to upside down? A buddy did it and I think he said it raised the bike about 1 cm?

So it looks like flipping them around gives you at least 14-15mm extra.

What a headache to get those two 10mm bolts out that are attached to the top tabs for the shock mounts; that secures the tray to them.


I just removed them since they do not serve much of an extra purpose, the tray will sit on the top of those plates if it drops down, and the back of the engine casing as well, plus there are two bolts at the back for the battery tray reinforcement, so I think it should be good without them.
Also looks like the Spears kit removes them as well.

I cut the tabs off the shock mount plates and smoothed out where they were welded.
Once I get two M10 washers I will mount it up.
 
I installed the GSXR shock flipping the stock shock mounting plates upside down(after cutting the tabs off and cleaning it up and powder coating and painting it)
It is stiff as a champ compared to stock and I can tell a difference in height it seems to sit higher, also sits higher on the rear Pit Bull stand and I am pretty sure I will need to re-adjust my chain now.

I measured the GSXR shock with tape measure(sorta dirty and probably not super accurate) and came up with the 311.15 mm as indicated in my earlier post.

I measured the stock N400 shock in position 3 on preload and came up with 317.5 mm ...hmmm cause I think its actually 320 eye to eye? At least going by what Ohlins says theirs is, unless they measure it at a adjusted out more position?
Also Kiwi got 321mm eye to eye, so maybe 320 is more accurate?

So that is a 6.35 inch drop, but I think its more like 10mm difference and that 3/8 Scook said...

Even if its only 6.35mm shorter, flipping the mounting plates around gave me a difference of 14.19mm, off the bike mounted plate to plate and bolted together, one flipped over one right side up


So lets say 15mm longer, so we get 7.84 or 8.74 mm of lift with the GSXR shock, or closer to 5mm if the N400 shock is 320mm and my GSXR eye to eye is spot on.
Either way I do not see us getting less than 5mm lift and more than 10mm lift flipping the plates around with GSXR shock. MagikDuck said his friend got 1cm, so that is 10mm.

I used two M10 stainless washers on the bottom mount to take up the left to right slop like Scook said. Of course I had a pack of 5 washers and two where same width, two other the same width and one at a slighter thicker than the other two.

Next I made some measurements with a digital caliper that is accurate to the allowances.
I also measured the lower shock bushing the bolt goes through on the N400 stock shock and the GSXR shock.

N400 lower shock bolt bush 40.43mm width, diameter = 17.99mm
GSXR lower shock bolt bush 36.07mm width, diamter = 17.00mm

Would have been nice if N400 lower shock bush diameter was closer to GSXR one, cause could have just swapped them out, but its almost 1mm larger and will not fit I tried for a good bit, then I measured and said nope.

2x M10 stainless steel washers 3.75-3.80mm thickness, or 3.82mm with one washer 1.90-.93mm thick, total width with GSXR shock bushing plus two washer = 39.89 mm
-.54mm difference over stock, this should suffice.
 
:grin:
Ps. I just measured my OEM shock as it's sitting on the shelf gathering dust. 321mm eye to eye centres.

How did you measure that with a digital caliper or tape measure? I used a tape measure as I do not have a digital caliper that long, would need a 350mm or 325mm(would not be long enough for the SV shocks though) to be long enough for shocks.
 
:grin:


How did you measure that with a digital caliper or tape measure? I used a tape measure as I do not have a digital caliper that long, would need a 350mm or 325mm(would not be long enough for the SV shocks though) to be long enough for shocks.
First of all I put my reading glasses on which makes life way more accurate these days!
I tend to use steel rules as I find them more accurate than tape measures. I have a good quality 600mm long one. I put two bolts through the eyes to transfer the center distances out to a place where I could lay the rule across.
I've just now gone out and re-done the process more accurately using two 10mm twist drills as they are a better sliding fit. I got 320mm.

What position the preload adjuster is on makes no difference to the unloaded length of the shock, just alters the amount of compression on the spring. It does change the ride height though as the the shocks resistance to taking the weight of the bike (bike sag) changes with each position.

15mm longer than stock shock length is a lot. I was running 14mm on the SV but have backed it off to 10mm now as swing arm angle was too steep. You may find it wants to turn in too quickly and tuck the front.
 
First of all I put my reading glasses on which makes life way more accurate these days!
I tend to use steel rules as I find them more accurate than tape measures. I have a good quality 600mm long one. I put two bolts through the eyes to transfer the center distances out to a place where I could lay the rule across.
I've just now gone out and re-done the process more accurately using two 10mm twist drills as they are a better sliding fit. I got 320mm.

What position the preload adjuster is on makes no difference to the unloaded length of the shock, just alters the amount of compression on the spring. It does change the ride height though as the the shocks resistance to taking the weight of the bike (bike sag) changes with each position.

15mm longer than stock shock length is a lot. I was running 14mm on the SV but have backed it off to 10mm now as swing arm angle was too steep. You may find it wants to turn in too quickly and tuck the front.

Lol, good deal, thanks!
I did about the same with two bolts, but used a tape measure.


I also thought the preload had nothing to do with length, but was grasping at any reason why my measurements were off by 3 mm on the N400 and maybe off by 1mm on the GSX-R shock. The GSX-R shock I spent more time measuring and re-measuring, and I feel like at the end of the day I gave it another 1mm or 2 in length stretching my measuring tape.


and......Right, but with the GSX-R shock at least 5mm shorter or more, it puts it at the 10mm or less of ride height out back.

So if I am 3mm short, the GSX-R shock is probably 310mm or 315mm length.
Where the N400 is 320mm

Dude I got the shock off, after going back and reading his eBay post says its 13" eye to eye, but not sure where he got those measurements!??! No way that is right.
Also keep in mind the GSX-R shock has an adjustable shank on the end, a claw style mount that mounts to the top shock eyelet which then mounts to the GSX-R with a threaded length and nut/washer so you can adjust ride height.

So lets review the numbers:


If its 5mm shorter than we are looking at 9-10mm rasied.
If its 10mm shorter we are looking at 4-5mm raised.

If its 10mm longer at 330mm, we are at 24-25mm height......and that is way too much. But I think this is all wrong.

Ohlins says 2011-2019 rear shock for 600 and 750, Hypersport TTX GP Shock is Length 319 (+2/-4) mm
-4 is 315mm, which I think this is their range of adjustment 315-321mm

I found this:

https://www.yss.co.th/downloads/YSS_ROAD_MOTORCYCLE.pdf

This shows the GSX-R 750 11-17 rear shock height 310mm-320mm, this must be their range of adjustment.


I would not see this company, YSS suspension which makes suspension for race bikes, going less than stock ride height out back.
It appears to be all road race application they make shocks for and no drag racing, which would or could require squatting the rear, or lowering it.


I am for now calling these measurements, unless anyone can argue, with valid exact measurements otherwise???


11-18 GSX-R rear shock = 310mm
18-19 Ninja 400 rear shock = 320mm


Flipping the upper shock mounting plates = +15mm

11-18 GSX-R rear shock plus flipping upper shock mounting plates +5 mm ride height.


With the upper shock mount plates flipped, I mounted both shocks and tighten down the bolts, bounced the rear 5 times and let it settle and took measurements.
I measure the center of the axle bolt to a fixed point on my fender eliminator, actually the openings for the stock turn signals so I could rest the end of the tape measure on and in those openings. Then I held the tape measure to relive the weight of the tape measure hanging on it, but only enough to not effect the measurement.
Here are my numbers:


N400 stock shock: 22 13/16" - 579.437mm


GSX-R shock: 22 7/16 " - 569.9125


So almost exactly a difference of 10mm, which lines up with others measurements and my original measurements of 310mm on GSX-R shock (I had 311.5 but factor in + - 1mm) and the N400 shock at 320mm.


So we lost 10mm on shock height, and if flipped vs not flipped is 15mm difference, we are up 5mm in the rear. Although 10 might better, 5mm is better than less.
So we are at least 5mm up but no more than 10mm higher if any of the measurements are off on the difference in flipped and not flipped, but I did bolt those together and measure with digital caliper.
 
Discussion starter · #40 · (Edited)
Sounds about right to me. What kind of sag numbers are you seeing? I'm about 185 without gear (leathers, helmet etc...) and saw right at 20mm loaded with a cold shock and rebound & comp set in middle. I did not touch pre-load at all. I believe we can swap out springs ourselves. Just need to buy those spring compressor thingys on eBay. With back end 5mm up may need? to lower tubes in triples to raise the front end? My GSX-R has been raised on both ends with fork extenders & a Penske shock. I do agree with you that the back end feels much firmer & taller. Maybe not as much sag as compared to OEM? ?Did you state that the OEM GSX-R shock is height adjustable? My only concern now is that even with the K-Tech springs 80/85 in the forks the front end still needs better internals/carts to deal with the firmer shock. Im not ready to shell out $1k yet for Ohlins or K-Tech etc.... carts. I would probably chat with Matt Patton. My carts in my GSX-R are stock and are fine for my level (intermediate) at the track. He uses GSX-R carts in his retro fits.


We just need to get this shock in front of a suspension guy to see if the OEM springs etc... are not compatible.


I will prob be at Pocono in a week or so and then hopefully NJMP the following weekend. Pocono will prob have NO suspension guy but NJMP should but he runs the show (Mark-Markbilt). I have my clutch out now and I did replace the shift shaft oil seal. Barnett springs & the SPEARS bits n' bobs going in. That shift adj kit REALLY tightens up that shift shaft slop.
 
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