[AZFox]

I think the current N650 is more like 57 whp / 64 crank. The older gen was approx +5 to those numbers.

Indeed the figures for the Ninja 650 on the Bikez site appear to be inaccurate. Sorry about that! Instead, these are dyno tests with charts:

"The Ninja 400 puts 43.4 hp to the ground at 9,900 rpm, backed up by 24.6 pound-feet of torque at 8,250 rpm."
https://www.cycleworld.com/how-much-power-does-new-2018-kawasaki-ninja-400-make

"A nice, steady stream of thrust maxing out at about 58 hp at 7,900 rpm and approximately 42 pound-feet of torque at 6,600 rpm."
https://www.cycleworld.com/2018-kawasaki-z650-dyno-video-review#page-3

Here are the corrected 650-versus-400 comparison results:

34% more / 25% less hp
70% more / 41% less torque

FWIW, my knuckle-draggingly crude Performance Comparison Scale is "HP per ten pounds":

400: 1.19 hp per 10#
650: 1.36 hp per 10# (+14%)

 

[GTScott]

Purchasing my first bike in the next few weeks if all goes as planned. Actually had a good deal on a 400 KRT but it got sold out from under me. Another KRT is on the way with no ETA. In the meantime, a friend on the left coast mentioned deals on left over 650s and said I should think about it. All in all, I can get a left over 2017 650 for about 1k more than the 2018 400 KRT. The purchase price does not weight in too much as a result.

Again, never ridden. Taking the safety course next weekend. The bike is going to be a fair weather, just for fun item. I may commute on it. A whopping 8 miles, max speed limit is 55. No interstate on that commute. All of that said, the 400 seems like a great pick. As a brand new rider, I cannot reasonably try out anything other than sit on them.

However, I have a bad habit of buying wrong. I bought a Boxster...then had to set the S...then the GT4. More power. Do I need it? No. Am I responsible? Yes. However, I have zero motorcycle skills and do not like to bleed.

If I get bitten by the 2-wheel bug, I imagine I will upgrade at the point that makes sense. The 650 seems like it would put that further into the future.

Any insight or others who have looked at this situation? I lean towards the 400 as I think it will be more forgiving but would really appreciate any input you more seasoned folks might have.

-Scott

 

[Deddie]

My first bike was a 2007 Ninja 650. The options back then were limited - Ninja 650, SV 650 or Ninja 250. I went with the Ninja 650. I had never ridden any bike (dirt, etc.) before purchase. Bought my bike, did not ride it until I took the MSF course, passed the course, started riding. Riding consisted of going out at 5:30 am every day (no cars around) and riding for an hour. Scared the crap out of me. The bike was not too much to handle, but several times I thought it was close. If the Ninja 400 existed in current form back then, I would have bought it without question and not regretted the decision.

 

[Muchacho22]

My first bike was a CBR125 and I have ridden it (and still ride it) for more than 2 years now.


Alot may laugh but euro regulations on motorcycles are 3 catgories, 125cc, 47hp max and anything above 47hp (Full License)


My first bike taught me alot. And he's forgiving. Today, almost 2 years after I have the Ninja 400. If you ask me, starting riding on this bike is the maximum I would reccomend to a begginer.

It handles the highway well. Anymore power than that is just overkill imo, maybe because Im used to riding a 125. But this bike is a little crotch rocket. all honesty. Yesterday I've had a mishap with it on 4th gear, wasn't paying too much attention, and i twisted the throttle a little bit.. too much. I instantly found myself being launched foward with the bike like somebody connected a skyrocket to it


Nothing happened as i was able to take control fast and get back to normal.
Meaning If I myself as novice rider with 2years of exprience who been into some sticky situations in my riding carrer, been into some **** with my motorcycles, passed an accident and 2 slides, and consider myself a responsible rider who's not after being at 3 digits all the time.... telling you that a Ninja 400 is more than enough for first bike, trust me on that... just my 2 cents.


Never have been on a 650, just 1000km on my 400

 

[Kiwi Rider]

I too learn't on a 125. I would have thought a N400 more than ample to learn on, if not over kill.

 

[CodyC]

I am a new rider as well and I struggled with getting the Ninja 400 or the Z650. I waited to buy a bike untill I finished the course. I was like you and feared I'd out grow the 400 sooner. In the end I settled on the Ninja 400 and for me I think it was the right choice.

 

[Mr Mike]

Purchasing my first bike in the next few weeks if all goes as planned. Actually had a good deal on a 400 KRT but it got sold out from under me. Another KRT is on the way with no ETA. In the meantime, a friend on the left coast mentioned deals on left over 650s and said I should think about it. All in all, I can get a left over 2017 650 for about 1k more than the 2018 400 KRT. The purchase price does not weight in too much as a result.

Again, never ridden. Taking the safety course next weekend. The bike is going to be a fair weather, just for fun item. I may commute on it. A whopping 8 miles, max speed limit is 55. No interstate on that commute. All of that said, the 400 seems like a great pick. As a brand new rider, I cannot reasonably try out anything other than sit on them.

However, I have a bad habit of buying wrong. I bought a Boxster...then had to set the S...then the GT4. More power. Do I need it? No. Am I responsible? Yes. However, I have zero motorcycle skills and do not like to bleed.

If I get bitten by the 2-wheel bug, I imagine I will upgrade at the point that makes sense. The 650 seems like it would put that further into the future.

Any insight or others who have looked at this situation? I lean towards the 400 as I think it will be more forgiving but would really appreciate any input you more seasoned folks might have.

-Scott

Hi Scott the 650 is a little heavier and requires more restraint from a beginner rider then a 400 by leaps and bounds, yes right now 650s 1 model yr old are selling on the down low as every other bike left in inventory is, The giant difference is not the higher speeds a 650 can achieve, its literally how quickly it accelerate or can sprint that will get you in trouble, there are pros and cons to both.

The 400s will fulfill everything a 650 can do unlike the smaller 250s, The 250s and 300s which are better suited to beginning riders in my opinion get out grown for lack of top end needed for the Highway..! youll have a hard time out growing the 400 and only loose some quicker acceleration which reduces your reaction time exponentially. with the 650 you'll never out grow it but it will not bar you from exceed your abilities and will massively reduce your reaction time.

Its quite literally this... You have a kid thats never ridden a bicycle ever, you have a choice of getting him one with training wheels that really slows the bike down due to road friction but keeps him upright so he can concentrate on which way to push the break peddle and steer before running off the sidewalk and hitting the tree coming up, or give him one without training wheels and give him a good push so they stay upright but will have to figure out quickly and without outside help how to balance, steer and break before he runs off the sidewalk and hits the tree coming up, while both bikes may hit that tree, one kid will probably be going faster than the other when he does.

On side walks theres usually no other bikes or objects to hit while learning to ride, but on the street theres plenty to hit and cars will run you over even by mistake. having a quicker accelerating motorcycle removes more reaction time you get with a smaller cc bike.

In theory you can learn to ride on any bike, Safety is about reaction time and leaving room for mistakes, honestly thats the only real difference between small CC bikes and large CC bikes when learning, Small CC bikes help limit your ability to exceed your reaction time... regardless of size you can easily get killed on any bike through bad choices most of which you don't even know exist yet being a new rider.

your choice of going with the 400 and the 650 should include your weight and hight as well, theres allot to consider, not just speed & acceleration. before you choose you may want to take a MSC coarse that includes Bikes & Helmets as part of the training.

Also watch this - Could have turned out so different had a 650 been involved. The 300s lack of power saves his A s s - Rev a 650 like that and you may go thru the rear window. Good luck and be safe man.

 

[Muchacho22]

Hi Scott the 650 is a little heavier and requires more restraint from a beginner rider then a 400 by leaps and bounds, yes right now 650s 1 model yr old are selling on the down low as every other bike left in inventory is, The giant difference is not the higher speeds a 650 can achieve, its literally how quickly it accelerate or can sprint that will get you in trouble, there are pros and cons to both.

The 400s will fulfill everything a 650 can do unlike the smaller 250s, The 250s and 300s which are better suited to beginning riders in my opinion get out grown for lack of top end needed for the Highway..! youll have a hard time out growing the 400 and only loose some quicker acceleration which reduces your reaction time exponentially. with the 650 you'll never out grow it but it will not bar you from exceed your abilities and will massively reduce your reaction time.

Its quite literally this... You have a kid thats never ridden a bicycle ever, you have a choice of getting him one with training wheels that really slows the bike down due to road friction but keeps him upright so he can concentrate on which way to push the break peddle and steer before running off the sidewalk and hitting the tree coming up, or give him one without training wheels and give him a good push so they stay upright but will have to figure out quickly and without outside help how to balance, steer and break before he runs off the sidewalk and hits the tree coming up, while both bikes may hit that tree, one kid will probably be going faster than the other when he does.

On side walks theres usually no other bikes or objects to hit while learning to ride, but on the street theres plenty to hit and cars will run you over even by mistake. having a quicker accelerating motorcycle removes more reaction time you get with a smaller cc bike.

In theory you can learn to ride on any bike, Safety is about reaction time and leaving room for mistakes, honestly thats the only real difference between small CC bikes and large CC bikes when learning, Small CC bikes help limit your ability to exceed your reaction time... regardless of size you can easily get killed on any bike through bad choices most of which you don't even know exist yet being a new rider.

your choice of going with the 400 and the 650 should include your weight and hight as well, theres allot to consider, not just speed & acceleration. before you choose you may want to take a MSC coarse that includes Bikes & Helmets as part of the training.

Also watch this - Could have turned out so different had a 650 been involved. The 300s lack of power saves his A s s - Rev a 650 like that and you may go thru the rear window. Good luck and be safe man.

New Bike & Rider

Agree.


Also, just a quick note - the motorcycle in the video is a CBR125 exactly like mine, not a 300. So I guess your point is even more proven..

 

[Howie]

I recently got my direct access licence in the UK, having never ridden before (Although I have been driving a manual car for 10 years).

Day one was on a Chinese 125 for the CBT then straight on to a Kawasaki ER6N (precursor to the Z650) on the second day.

The difference was staggering and I was scared at first but by the end of day two I'd gotten a feel for it.

I spent the rest of my lessons split between the Kawasaki and a Yamaha MT-07 (FZ-07 stateside).

It took me maybe 5 full days of riding to get my license and I'm also trying to decide between these two bikes now.

With that said, I would consider a 650 to be at the upper limit of what I would recommend for a beginner and only then if you're confident with a clutch and gears. While I was taking lessons another guy managed to wheelie an MT-07 straight across a roundabout thanks to his poor clutch control and ended up in the back of an ambulance. These things can and will bite you... I nearly lost it once myself pulling away from traffic lights by giving it too much throttle and accidentally popping the clutch.

It's for this reason that I'm thinking of going with the 400 myself. I know that I could ride a 650, but I think you're more likely to lose control off the line with all the extra torque and it's a bigger, heavier bike to handle.

 

[srt4evah]

I don't think you can go wrong with either. But as an experienced rider, I'd prefer to have the 400 myself. I'm more the type of rider that would own a Lotus Exige instead of a Mustang GT. Lightness and agility mean more to me than outright power, and the Ninja 400 can do 120mph on the freeway, much more than I'd ever choose to do.

Better braking, better agility, and more than enough top speed, Ninja 400 would top the Ninja 650 for me. I might reconsider if I were 6' and 250lbs, but I'm 5'7" and 160lbs.

 

[underhate]

I don't think you can go wrong with either. But as an experienced rider, I'd prefer to have the 400 myself. I'm more the type of rider that would own a Lotus Exige instead of a Mustang GT. Lightness and agility mean more to me than outright power, and the Ninja 400 can do 120mph on the freeway, much more than I'd ever choose to do.

Better braking, better agility, and more than enough top speed, Ninja 400 would top the Ninja 650 for me. I might reconsider if I were 6' and 250lbs, but I'm 5'7" and 160lbs.

I feel the same, the agility of the 400 is more than enough for me on the twisty roads and more than enough top end to feel safe. I'm also 5'7 btw only 10lbs lighter.

 

[hbucher]

I was sort of disappointed with the 400 during the first two months. It was during the break-in period (<1000 mile) because of the 4,000/6,000 rpm limit.

When the break-in period passed and I could really open up the throttle, man it was really fun and scary. This bike has power.

Good thing is that during these 2 months I did plenty of mistakes and thank God being under 4,000 rpm was a godsend. If it was a 650 I'd be royally ******.

 

[HTXKratom]

I was sort of disappointed with the 400 during the first two months. It was during the break-in period (<1000 mile) because of the 4,000/6,000 rpm limit.

When the break-in period passed and I could really open up the throttle, man it was really fun and scary. This bike has power.

Good thing is that during these 2 months I did plenty of mistakes and thank God being under 4,000 rpm was a godsend. If it was a 650 I'd be royally ******.

Even though it's my first bike, i find it has plenty of power and all i ever need. Even more so after adding arrow race tech exhaust.

 

[Mr Mike]

I was sort of disappointed with the 400 during the first two months. It was during the break-in period (<1000 mile) because of the 4,000/6,000 rpm limit.

When the break-in period passed and I could really open up the throttle, man it was really fun and scary. This bike has power.

Good thing is that during these 2 months I did plenty of mistakes and thank God being under 4,000 rpm was a godsend. If it was a 650 I'd be royally ******.

I like to think the 4,000/6,000 rpm Is like that for the very reason you described above due to it being marketed to new riders.... I still think the bikes to quick for new riders.

 

[Kojiiro]

My second and third bike were 650’s. I wouldn’t say they are bad learner bikes, they are definitely manageable. I am 144 pounds soaking wet. I will say that you will really learn to learn to ride on a smaller bike faster than a bigger bike. I dont mean just commuting to work. I am talking about riding a bike with speed, precision and control like how a sports bike is supposed to be ridden. For knee dragging fun, I believe it’s faster and easier to learn on a small, lightweight bike.

 

[xtremsiege2]

First of all, thank you for providing an honest and accurate detail on your ability and prior purchases; it makes for a much better analysis of what you should do in regards to engine size. I cannot touch on the ninja 400 personally verses the 650 beyond riding a 650.

In my opinion, a 45hp motorcycle is perfect for a beginner and is more than enough power. New riders don't understand and don't learn how to properly ride and function all the features and abilities of a motorcycle as is..nor do more experienced riders. It is best to learn how to handle it on a small bike and middleweight and go from there.

Can you start on something with more power and grow, of course! But being able to ride the motorcycle to its actual abilities and learn from it will be at question when things can potentially go sour from someone cutting you off and not braking properly, to accelerating too much in a turn and everything, basic fundamentals which are not learned or remembered in a msc course and learned through your own experiences will ultimately teach you to ride at whatever speed you want to.

I went the fast route because I assumed it was cool to have a 600cc ss bike; learned to shift and ride basically on quads and a smaller bike but when the time came I bought a gsxr600. Had no issues besides going down in a parking garage, but it was more bike than I needed then and maybe enough now 8 years later. Had 2 liter bikes and doing track days, have been passed by the smaller guys doing it right in my opinion at the track.

I say get the 400 and ride it for a year unless youre a speed demon previously owning the boxter. A 4.5 60 time is not slow either. Theres no shame not having the fastest bike out there because we all love riding regardless of what you're on.

 

[Kojiiro]

I don't think you can go wrong with either. But as an experienced rider, I'd prefer to have the 400 myself. I'm more the type of rider that would own a Lotus Exige instead of a Mustang GT. Lightness and agility mean more to me than outright power, and the Ninja 400 can do 120mph on the freeway, much more than I'd ever choose to do.

Better braking, better agility, and more than enough top speed, Ninja 400 would top the Ninja 650 for me. I might reconsider if I were 6' and 250lbs, but I'm 5'7" and 160lbs.

I agree with most of your points but doubt the 400 has better braking than thr 650’s dual rotor front wheel. I owned2 650’s . I like them as an everyday commuter. I liked the heavy weight for commuting. I used to have to commute on the Coronado bridge, and getting blown from lane 1 to lane 3 is probably the most scared I’ve been on a bike. Been in a hit and run, will run 80 mph in the rain in San Diego,lane split 90 mph in dead stop traffic, have done 150+ through mount Laguna. All that stuff is meh. Wind, when strong enough+ a light bike is not so fun. I moved to a zx6r for a change but later to an R3. At the moment I am stuck on light bikes. I enjoy sport riding which for me means the track, and I will say this, which I think most of you track folks will agree with: very few of you guys in this forum will out grow a 250, period. If you think you have outgrown a 250,start doing track days and realize you are no where near the limits.

A tip on the 650, after a certain lean angle, the bike is going to want a lot more input before it will lean nay more. This is at knee dragging speed and angle, so not a big deal for most of us while on the street. The solution is to drop the forks a bit, where it then gets much more responsive. The 650 is no slouch, but it’s no rocket either. People do race it, so don’t ever think it’s too slow.

I wouldn’t say it’s a bad beginner bike. I’m only 144 pounds and never thought it was too much bike for me. My only riding experience before that was around 3-4 months and 3600 miles on a ninja 500.not sure if I confused you more with my post but hopefully I’ve added some kind of insight.

 

[xtremsiege2]

I enjoy sport riding which for me means the track, and I will say this, which I think most of you track folks will agree with: very few of you guys in this forum will out grow a 250, period. If you think you have outgrown a 250,start doing track days and realize you are no where near the limits.
.

So incredibly true..you see guys running in the fast groups on R3's and similar 300's. Sure they get passed on the strait but either hang with you in the turns or re-pass you(see this in middle group all the time).

Unless you're running at a large track such as Cota or similar where top speeds are exceeding 160 mph and the turns are massive, a 300 is perfect to learn on and truly push to the limit.

 

[hbucher]

Yoshimura

Even though it's my first bike, i find it has plenty of power and all i ever need. Even more so after adding arrow race tech exhaust.

I added the yoshimura alpha-t works and I did not install the low volume insert. Man, it is hurting my ears after a few hours riding.

 

[xorbe]

I liked the heavy weight for commuting.

This doesn't get mentioned enough. Everyone raves about light weight fun bikes, but when hitting the freeway, it's not necessarily your friend. Perfect excuse for owning multiple bikes.

:grin:

If I had a do over, I might opt for N400 + Suzuki S1000F. Light weight fun weekend bike and porky commuter freeway machine.