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I changed my oil at 600 miles with Motul 5100 4T Semi-Synthetic Motorcycle Oil 10W40, and again just now at 2400 miles. I know it's very early but i know the bike is new and i want to make sure i get all the metal shavings out and the bike is happy. I guess now i could do my next change at 10k miles huh? but i'll probably do it way sooner :)
 

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I changed my oil at 600 miles with Motul 5100 4T Semi-Synthetic Motorcycle Oil 10W40, and again just now at 2400 miles. I know it's very early but i know the bike is new and i want to make sure i get all the metal shavings out and the bike is happy. I guess now i could do my next change at 10k miles huh? but i'll probably do it way sooner :)
Personally I wouldn't leave Semi-Synth oil in for 7600 miles (12K km's.)
Two liters of semi-synth oil and a filter is cheap engine protection.

For what it's worth I do the second change early too. Ain't saying this is the best way though as I have come to realise that oil's and the frequency of changes are a very personal thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 · (Edited)
Absolutely, you have to do what feels right for you.
That's a subjective way of looking at it that's kind of anti-scientific, but it has a benefit of being non-threatening. It allows someone to blissfully ignore whatever they want, which could be considered a feature or a bug depending on your perspective.

The Owner's Manual's information is pretty much all you need. I would suggest two peace-of-mind-enhancing upgrades:

  1. Do oil change #2 at 2,000 miles instead of 7,600.
  2. From oil change #3 onward, increase the minimum API Service Cagegory from SG to SM.

FWIW, Motul oils' service categories are

  • Motul 3000 API SJ / JASO MA/MA2 (ref)
  • Motul 5100 API SL / JASO MA (ref)
  • Motul 7100 API SN / JASO MA2 (ref)
  • Motul 300V n/a (ref)

It would be hard to improve upon

  • 600 ==> Motul 3000
  • 2,000 ==> Motul 3000
  • From there on ==> any API SM or SN oil

An in-the-know oil-forum guy would tell you that fancy French Motul 3000 oil is a waste of money when Valvoline motorcycle oil that costs US$4.44 per quart at the Big Box Store will do exactly the same thing. He would have a good point about that, because like I wrote previously it's next-to-impossible to prove using facts and data that any oil that meets a certain specification causes less wear than another oil that also meets that specification.

Any SG oil is likely to protect the same as any other SG oil.
Any SN oil is likely to protect the same as any other SN oil.
An SG oil is very unlikely to protect as well as an SN oil.

The main reason you can achieve peace of mind by changing the oil at 2,000 miles / 3,200 km is because doing so purges the last bits of break-in wear debris from the crankcase.

Wear debris in oil isn't visible to the naked eye. About 40 microns is the smallest size for a visible particle, and your oil filter should be catching everything bigger than about 25 microns.
 

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Kawasaki's US$6 ATV oil meets API SM and their US$12 full-synth oil only meets API SL. Given a choice between those two, I'd opt for the higher-spec'd oil for half the price and maybe change it slightly sooner just for good measure.

Kawasaki Performance 4-Stroke ATV/Utility Vehicle Engine Oil, Quart, 10W-40
I went to the dealership and grab a couple quarts. The website says it meets API SM, but the back of the bottle says SL. That would put it in the break in oil category wouldn't it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 · (Edited)
I went to the dealership and grab a couple quarts. The website says it meets API SM, but the back of the bottle says SL. That would put it in the break in oil category wouldn't it?
Yes it would.

The phrase "break-in oil" has a specific common meaning (mineral oil that's specially formulated with high ZDDP, essentially) so "oil to use during the break-in period" would be a more accurate way of putting it. In other words, it's not special-purpose oil, rather it's a preferred grade of oil to use for the two oil change intervals that immediately follow the 600-mile factory-fill interval.

Thanks for posting about the mismatch. It's disappointing news, but good to know.
 

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Royal purple 10W40

I use Royal purple 10W40 the best out there how I know?
each oil change I take the bike for drag racing and see time best achieved time was with this type of oil I used yes does make a difference I couldn't believe it and the top speed is higher too depending on wind day.
 

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Mobil 10w40 4T Racing

I have been using Mobil 10W40 4T racing for over 15 years in all my bikes. I usually change it every 3/k miles. I have a little over 1/k miles on the 400, I already went with the Mobil. I will probably change it again early track season to get the new sexy aluminum oil drain bolt with the holes for safety wire. I will change the oil and filter once a season, I doubt I will hit 3/k miles a season with 2 bikes.
 

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I went to the dealership and grab a couple quarts. The website says it meets API SM, but the back of the bottle says SL. That would put it in the break in oil category wouldn't it?
I picked up some at the dealer also. Figured I would use it the first several Oil Changes..

I am planning first at 600miles. and next at 2K.

After that, who knows. I will have to reread this thread at that point to decide what to put in it. :plain:
 

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past 600 miles and hence 1st service completed.
i was looking at engine oils and this caught my eye (the Amazon basics fully synthetic 10w-40 oil). -- https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...h=i:aps,k:amazon+basics+full+synthetic+10w-40
great reviews and cheap (that always raises a question in my books).

so i go googling and find this --
it blows out valvoline and even mobil 1. i am wondering if the video is legit (but that coupled with the amazon reviews looks like a good deal). Fakespot gives a C or F rating to most of these oils though. :(
inputs anyone?
 

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Remember, your clutch needs JASO rated oil. Friction modifiers in automotive oils can kill your clutch friction plates!
i need to read more. thanks for this.
so back to the kawasaki mineral oil available at the dealer then. as long as engine is in good shape and delivers.
 

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Bike oil vs car oil

That amazon oil looks good and the price is right, I would try it in one of my cars. But BIKE OIL for bikes and CAR OIL for cars. Like the gentlemen have said before me, there are additives in car oil that are no good for bike wet clutches. I have tried the Shell Rotella oil in one of my bikes. I didn’t like the way it was shifting and the shifts were not smooth. I dumped it right away and went back to MOBIL ONE for bikes. That was an expensive oil change. I went with the Mobil One 10w40 4T Racing the 1st oil change when I got the 400 at 900 miles.
 

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I normally change oil and filter after every race weekend, but occasionally get lazy and change every OTHER. I recently tried the Mobile 1 motorcycle racing oil,(full synthetic), seemed to shift a bit smoother than my normal Rotella T6, will probably race another round before changing, the M1 is about $10/quart, not too bad. . .
 

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past 600 miles and hence 1st service completed.
i was looking at engine oils and this caught my eye (the Amazon basics fully synthetic 10w-40 oil). -- https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...h=i:aps,k:amazon+basics+full+synthetic+10w-40
great reviews and cheap (that always raises a question in my books).

so i go googling and find this --
it blows out valvoline and even mobil 1. i am wondering if the video is legit (but that coupled with the amazon reviews looks like a good deal). Fakespot gives a C or F rating to most of these oils though. /forum/images/smilies/frown.gif
inputs anyone?
From my due diligence on the Amazon Basics oil I found it is produced and packaged by the same company that supplies Walmart with their full synthetic motor oil, I have run Mobile 1 in my vehicles in the past, but after watching this video last year I started researching the Warren oil. I am presently running it in both my Honda Pilot and Jeep. I haven’t noticed any loss in fuel mileage. I have not run it in my bikes.
 

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Using Maxima Syn Blend 4 ester fortified ,10w-40 jaso ma rated oil $30 a gallon on amazon. I have used regular dino motorcycle oil too and never had any problems.
 

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There's a lot of good info in this thread, but I wanted to add some things too.

No motorcycle oil thread would be complete without bringing up diesel engine oil a.k.a. Heavy Duty Engine Oil a.k.a. HDEO. I wouldn't use it in a motorcycle but a lot of people would. The reasons I wouldn't are


  1. For 2.3L of oil, the cost savings isn't enough ($8 max).
  2. The full-synthetics cost as much as inexpensive motorcyle oil.
  3. It's not appropriate for hot weather because viscosity will self-degrade.

Some factoids:


  • HDEO is relatively inexpensive and people put it in everything.
  • The major-brand HDEOs meet API SN specs for gasoline engines.
  • Major-brand conventional and semi-synth HDEOs are 15W-40.
  • Major-brand full synthetic HDEOs are 5W-40.
  • Rotella T4 and Rotella T6 meet the JASO MA & MA2 wet-clutch spec.

In a shared-sump motorcycle these oils are not likely to hold their 40-weight viscosity after accumulating some mileage because motorcycle transmissions chew up "Viscosity Index improver" molecules. Put another way, these oils are not particularly strong in the Shear Stability department (because they're made for diesel engines and diesel engines are easier on VI improvers than motorcycles are).

If you're worried about your clutch being covered under warranty and want to run a HDEO (despite advice against it), the only ones I found that say they meet JASO MA are Rotella T4 and Rotella T6.

Conclusion: Rotella T6 meets specifications and appears to be adequate oil if your weather isn't hot, but you can buy motorcycle oil for the same price so why bother? :plain:
In the testing described at http://www.ducatimeccanica.com/oil.html, Castrol GTX had lost 8.2% of its viscosity after 3600 miles in an Accord. The same oil had lost 32% of its viscosity (i.e. it went from 40 weight to 27) after only 1500 miles in a bike. Yes, 4x the breakdown in 1/2 the time. Shared-sump setups are definitely much harder on oil than straight auto engines.

Note that dino oils inherently use more VIIs than synthetics to allow them to cover the viscosity range needed for multi-weight oils. Any complaints about VIIs in synthetic HDEOs are just as applicable to other Group III synthetics, and even more applicable to every dino and semi-synth oil, regardless of whether there's a picture of a car, truck, or motorcycle on the bottle. http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html has been around a while, but it's got a lot of great info on oil, and a section specifically stating reasons why HDEOs match up well with motorcycle engine needs (specifically mentioning that they're better at retaining their viscosity).

T6 has been shown to shear down a bit faster than other synthetics (though it also starts with a higher VI), but it's still much better than dino oil. At ~$16/gallon after the perpetual rebate, I find it to be a good overall value (Mobil 1 4T costs 2.5-3x as much). Even with the EX500 holding ~4qt, a full synthetic oil and filter change was usually right around $20 depending on which sales I caught. I aimed for ~2500mi OCIs, with the same mindset you have that it's cheap insurance to change it a little more frequently. I know it's not the best oil on the market, but I feel it's the best bang for the buck. I don't believe you can buy any synthetic "motorcycle" oil for a similar price.

Semi-synthetics are simply dino oils with up to 30% synthetic added (otherwise they have to get the oil recertified as a new formula, which costs 6 figures). It's all the impurities of dino oil with a little bit of the benefits of synthetic added. Personally, I say either get dino oil if you're going cheap or full synthetic if you're going for quality. If the extra cost is more than 1/3 of the difference between conventional and synthetic, you're paying too much (and you're still getting a relatively low quality product).

Keep in mind that the newer API S standards aren't always better. For example, the SH standard included extra high temperature deposit protection due to the popularity of turbo engines in the early '90s; SJ oils did not have this high temperature protection, as that portion of the standard was dropped. The JASO spec came about when the API S standards decreased ZDDP and increased friction modifiers, which they felt didn't adequately cover the needs of motorcycle engines. My EX500's manual specifically lists SE/SF/SG or SH/SJ with JASO MA - the newer standards require the additional wet clutch considerations of JASO MA to be considered as good as the old ones.

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html said:
Here's the truth: modern Japanese engines are amazingly well engineered and can tolerate a surprising amount of abuse.

Your engine will not explode if you use Spiffo-Magic Superlube for 4,000 miles. Your engine will not explode if you never use synthetic oils. However, any of these choices puts additional strain on your engine. You buy $65 tires for your car that last 45,000 miles, and $100 tires for your bike that last 8,000 miles. Why on earth would you try to save $5 on each oil change to buy an oil that can't hold up in a motorcycle engine?
 
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