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Discussion Starter #1
I ended up getting prey of marketing hype and bought the Motul 300V and the Hiflo oil filter. The shifting is smother. I want to see if it keeps that smooth for the whole year until the next oil change. I don't make 6k miles a year, so I usually change my oil and filter once a year.
IMHO a whole year might be a little long for that oil. Here's why:

Motul 300V is "racing engine oil developed for Factory Teams". I'd be surprised to find out there's marketing hype for a racing engine oil that recommends leaving it in your engine for 12 months. For that there's Motul 7100, which is their ester synthetic oil with an additive package that's suitable for street use and normal oil change intervals. There are hints in the data sheets.

Motul 300V recommendations:
For optimum engine and gearbox performance, avoid mixing with other synthetic or mineral lubricants.
Oil change: according to your own use.

Motul 7100 recommendations:
Drain interval: according to manufacturers’ recommendations and tune to your own use.
Can be mixed with synthetic or mineral lubricants.
 

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^^
Interesting how we read so different things out of the same writings.
When I read your post I thought. 'Oh, I got it all wrong.' So I went again the product page and the oil specs sheet.


The website says:
'we have created a PERFECT SYNERGY dedicated to the engine, the gearbox and the clutch'
'takes advantage of the ESTER Core® Technology to ensure you MAXIMUM power output of the engine without compromising the reliability and the wear'

I think that's marketing hype at its best.
So they created something 'perfect'? Are they perfect? So there is no room to improve? Or maybe the next formula will be more perfect?
So they get the 'MAXIMUM' power out of the engine with this oil? Or the next formula will get even more power?
LOL Sorry, but marketing people always make me laugh.


As you pointed out, the specs sheet says:
Oil change: according to your own use.
But I don't read there: 'It won't last twelve months'


The techincal sheet also says:
- Other uses: street bikes fitted with catalytic converters, ATV’s, UTV’s… (I wonder what the ... means)
- It doesn't recommend an oil interval. This is weird. I think they should. I even sent them a message through the contact page asking about this, but there was no response.
- It says it surpasses existing standars,
- It doesn't say that it won't last 12 months.

So the oil has to be good for the little ninja.

Kawi recommends 10w40 MINERAL oil. Change every 6k miles or a year. I don't see a reason to go beyond that.
I got the Motul 300V because I wanted to try if this 'so great and so expensive' oil would improve my shifting. So far so good. The shifting is smoother. I will tell again in some months.


This is the product page:
https://www.motul.com/us/en-US/products/300v-factory-line-road-racing-10w40

And this is the link to the specs sheet:
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/...ctory_Line_10W-40_TDS__28GB_29.pdf?1492017603
 

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And regarding your advice to get the 7100, yes I could have gone with the 7100. I'm sure it's a great oil.

But reading the product desciption I didn't find the 'perfect synergy with the clutch and gear box' or the 'maximum power output', so for only $10 extra I could get my perfect synergy and maximum power output.

LOL, sorry, for being sarcastic, it's just for me it's all marketing BS. And I fell for it, shame on me.

It's not with you. We just have a different opinion in oil.

On a more serious note, I think the oil makers have the means to indicate how many hours, or miles, or engine revolutions should their oil last under normal conditions of use. If they don't do it is because they prefer the people to keep changing the oil sooner than needed.
 

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The additive packages in "Race" oils are made for exactly that...Racing. Not because they can make your bike faster but because they don't bother themselves with things like keeping your engine clean or resisting being sheared down to nothing over time in your gearbox. They don't hold up as well over time because they're not meant to. A race engine is going to see far more oil changes and full tear downs than a street engine ever should. They're made to operate well in a specific environment. Can they work in street bike? Probably...But you're paying more money for an oil that's not best suited for the job you're asking it to do.
 

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Maybe... Maybe I'm wrong and the oil won't last 12 months. The only way to tell is to do the oil analysis after 12 months, which I probably won't do.

6000 miles or 12 months is what most bike manufacturers recommend for an oil change.
If the racing oil didn't protect the engine for 12 months, I'm sure the oil manufacturers would put a big warning and wouldn't recommend it for street use, and we would hear more about busted street bikes because of using racing oil.

Yes, I know is a bit of a waste of money, but I fall for it some times.
For me, the real waste of money is to change the oil before the recommended interval without an oil analysis that confirms that the oil is really worn out.

I used to use the Repsol Racing oil on my previous bikes (CBR600, S1000RR, N250) and never got any kind of problem, so I guess they protected the engine well enough. Always changing yearly.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
It's not with you. We just have a different opinion in oil.
No worries. I just noticed that Racing Oil is for racing engines (short drain intervals) and Motul 7100 is for street engines (manufacturers' drain intervals). IMHO it's a horses for courses thing...

It's similar with tires. Racing tires are designed for optimal performance and not high mileage. The trade-offs for tires are easier to discern than the ones for oil.
 

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Maybe... Maybe I'm wrong and the oil won't last 12 months. The only way to tell is to do the oil analysis after 12 months, which I probably won't do.

6000 miles or 12 months is what most bike manufacturers recommend for an oil change.
If the racing oil didn't protect the engine for 12 months, I'm sure the oil manufacturers would put a big warning and wouldn't recommend it for street use, and we would hear more about busted street bikes because of using racing oil.

Yes, I know is a bit of a waste of money, but I fall for it some times.
For me, the real waste of money is to change the oil before the recommended interval without an oil analysis that confirms that the oil is really worn out.

I used to use the Repsol Racing oil on my previous bikes (CBR600, S1000RR, N250) and never got any kind of problem, so I guess they protected the engine well enough. Always changing yearly.
I don't like getting into the oil debate, you know this oil is best or that oils best..

I just want to make you aware that True Racing oils do differ from street Oil in few areas...

1. Racing oils usually don't have Acid inhibitors because racing oils are changed at short intervals.
2. Racing oils contain Zinc " excellent anti wear metal coating ' ( which harms catalytic converters ).
3. Racing oils have have fewer if any detergent additives found in street oils, Because racing oil handles sustained Rpms and heat levels and is changed in short intervals. The
oil you see turning brown in your bike is caused by heat cycling " caramelization " and black overtime from soot - detergent keeps the particles suspended so they can be filter
out.

Look at it like this, If the oils API rating conform to Kawasaki's data sheet your golden, thats what really matters.

Good luck and be safe man.
 

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Oh, we can debate. It's fun and free, and it may be useful for others reading. It doesn't hurt as long as we're respectful of each other.

Look at it like this, If the oils API rating conform to Kawasaki's data sheet your golden, thats what really matters.
You nailed it! What really matters is the oil specifications matching the bike maker requirements. The rest is marketing and speculations.

My service manual says 'Oil Type: API SG, SH, SJ, SL or SM with JASO MA, MA1 or MA2'
So I go to the oil specifications and find: 'Above existing standards / Wet clutch compatibility checked on JASO T903 test'
I don't know what JASO T903 is so I look for it on line and the first two articles that I find are these:
https://passenger.lubrizoladditives360.com/understanding-jaso-ma-and-mb/
https://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/JASO_MA_JASO_MB.php

After reading a bit. (I didn't read it all), I learned that to comply with JASO T903, the oil has to comply to at least one of the standards API SG, SH, SJ, SL, SM. And also that it will fall in any of the categories defined by JASO MA, JASO MA1, JASO MA2 and JASO MB
So, it looks like the oil specification matches the bike specifications. For me, that's good enough, even though I don't know what Zinc, Detergent Additives or Acid Inhibitors are


2. Racing oils contain Zinc " excellent anti wear metal coating ' ( which harms catalytic converters ).
The oil specs says:
Other uses: street bikes fitted with catalytic converters, ATV’s, UTV’s…
So I think I'm safe there.

And those '...' at the end of the sentence keep bringing my attention. Why that ellipsis? Can it be used in other type of engines? In which ones? Can I use it in my home generator? I bet I can. The more I read into this, the more I think this is just some regular synthetic oil with some improvement here and there and then dressed as a super-high-performance-motogp oil.


The only ambiguous point in the specs for me is the part that says:
Oil change: according to your own use.

This is the same as saying nothing. How could I possibly know when to change the oil if the oil maker doesn't tell me?
I know most of the people will read 'Change it more often' out of this.
What I read is: 'Motul knows that this oil will last at least 6000 miles / 12 months, but if they say that, people will change it once a year and Motul will loose a lot of money. So Motul says 'change: according to your own use', which is the same as saying nothing and keep people changing it more often than needed.

Again, how difficult would it be to Motul to perform serious tests on their oil and recommend a changing interval for each type of use and each type of bike. I think they don't do it because it would make them loose a lot of money.


So, on another note, how often would you guys say I should change my Motul 300V oil?
I put about 4000 miles a year, mainly weekend rides, shifting in high revs often, but rarely hitting the rev limiter. I do about 10 track days a year in intermediate group.
 

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Oh, we can debate. It's fun and free,
Hi Topaz.
I cant think of an advantage for having an advanced debate about a certain specific oil as being useful other then sidetracking the intended content of this how to DIY thread. Maybe it would be better suited to an oil debate thread, that way new comers don't have to weed through confusing topics just trying to learn how to change their oil... Thanks man.
 

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Hi Topaz.
I cant think of an advantage for having an advanced debate about a certain specific oil as being useful other then sidetracking the intended content of this how to DIY thread. Maybe it would be better suited to an oil debate thread, that way new comers don't have to weed through confusing topics just trying to learn how to change their oil... Thanks man.
Sorry about derailing the topic. Even though how to change the oil and when to change it are not so unrelated.
Maybe @Kiwi Rider will jump in and do some clean up or make a new thread.

Cheers
 

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OHHH an Oil thread. this should be fun LOL
 

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I have always used Motul oils, can't even think about using something else
 
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When it comes to engine oil, I mostly use the golden brown stuff...but have also used the green stuff. It all worked.
 

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So now that there is the new thread, it'd be nice to hear comments on how often these racing oils, like Motul 300V or Repsol Racing 4T should be changed. Hopefully with actual numbers as in hours or miles and studies or tests results to back up that recommendation.

I've always thought that if the oil matched the bike maker standards requirements, then it was good for the whole change interval indicated by the maker, but I may be wrong.
Now you guys made me doubt and I may change it earlier. LOL, but wouldn't know how earlier.

Or maybe the only way to know is to do the analysis test, in which case, there must be people who already did it and can comment or recommend.

Eager to hear...
 

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So much is based on how the bike is being used. Street, track, both? If street or both, how aggressive is the street riding / short or long runs? Daily commuter, or long consistent weekend runs? Those points plus some legend and a splash of voodoo will get you closer to the right answer.

Consider this as well, much of the wear on an engine comes in the first < minute after starting, before the oil is fully circulating. This is where additives become important.

Race oil can worry less about that period of time and focus more on what is needed for continuous high revving.. When formulating for street, there are other considerations.

At the end of the day, there is no 100% right answer here, and the VAST majority of people will never see an oil selection related problem with these little bikes. These aren't GP engines.

All of that said, I'm not claiming to be an expert, or say my opinion is necessarily worth anything.

All of THAT said, I personally run Mobil 1 as its readily available, reasonably priced, and I've been happy with it.
 
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Guys.. I live in a country where in the summer its 35 degrees C at the minimum and its hot almsot all the year.. should i go above 10w40 as the manual reccomends to my climate?
 

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So now that there is the new thread, it'd be nice to hear comments on how often these racing oils, like Motul 300V or Repsol Racing 4T should be changed. Hopefully with actual numbers as in hours or miles and studies or tests results to back up that recommendation.

I've always thought that if the oil matched the bike maker standards requirements, then it was good for the whole change interval indicated by the maker, but I may be wrong.
Now you guys made me doubt and I may change it earlier. LOL, but wouldn't know how earlier.

Or maybe the only way to know is to do the analysis test, in which case, there must be people who already did it and can comment or recommend.

Eager to hear...
There is no perfectly right answer for this. It is all dependent on the operating conditions, which vary from rider to rider. People get insane over these debates, when the reality is that for "average" riding, a regular dino oil (or synthetic) at the factory interval (with proper ratings and viscosity) will be fine. Manufacturers warranty these bikes, so they are not going to give a recommendation that is going to potentially cost them money in warranty repairs.

I've had street bikes that I took to the dragstrip, and the synthetic oil was changed after one day of use. I've had other bikes that I let go for thousands of miles.

Yes, if you want to know what the ideal change interval is for YOUR brand of oil and YOUR riding habits and conditions, then get an oil analysis.
 

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OHHH an Oil thread. this should be fun LOL
Ha ha, my thoughts exactly. I was tempted to re-name it 'the great oil debate'. :biggrin:
Always a popular discussion on motorcycle forums.
So yep, heat up the popcorn, sit back and enjoy watching it go in circles!
I may add my 2 cents at some stage if it looks like it's flagging.

:popcorn::popcorn:
 
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