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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey!

I've pretty much murdered my stock tyres after 2900km road and track (3 track days). The track I've been on is heavily right handers, so the ride side of my tyre is on wear markers while the left has a chunk left.

Anyway, the goal for the bike was always track/race so I'm researching tyres. At the moment I'm kind of between something like the Power RS with a balance of track and road and something like a Pirelli SC which is more track than road but still legal.

What kind of life are people getting out of SCs with track riding? How about RS?

Any tyres you'd recommend for primarily track riding, but still wanting to do the odd quick run on the road (to keep bike and myself happy between track days)?

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I say get more satisfaction out of your closed course days. The only road desire I have these days is a Vespa 300 that more than quenches the street need.
Ah I just like being able to change bits and pieces and tweak them on the road, rather than wasting track time. It also let's me keep the feel for the bike so my first session isn't as wobbly if it's been some time between track days, and keep the battery/liquids flowing.

I have another bike (S1000RR) that is primarily street at the moment. So it's not really a need to be able to street the 400, just a want if it's not going to limit me too much set up wise, primarily tyres.
 

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Ah I just like being able to change bits and pieces and tweak them on the road, rather than wasting track time. It also let's me keep the feel for the bike so my first session isn't as wobbly if it's been some time between track days, and keep the battery/liquids flowing.

I have another bike (S1000RR) that is primarily street at the moment. So it's not really a need to be able to street the 400, just a want if it's not going to limit me too much set up wise, primarily tyres.
on that note..I find the n400 to be a fantastic commuter, essentially making the world my racetrack. I'm also interested in tire (fixed the spelling for ya ;) ) recommendations!
 

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For street and track the Dunlop Q3+ is hard to beat. I didn’t ride enough on the street to estimate mileage but I would think all the tires in this category are going to last about the same.

As far as wearing out one side of the rear tires goes, for the track only just about every one will flip the tire to get more life out of them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
For street and track the Dunlop Q3+ is hard to beat. I didn’t ride enough on the street to estimate mileage but I would think all the tires in this category are going to last about the same.

As far as wearing out one side of the rear tires goes, for the track only just about every one will flip the tire to get more life out of them.
Oh right, hadn't really thought about the Q3s. Is the Q3+ much of a step above the stock tyres? Do you use stock sizes or have you done the 140/70 deal on the rear?

I ran Q3+'s on my S1KRR for a while, as I needed new tyres at a track day and it was what they had without going full track. I think I prefer the Michelin Power GP I switched them out for later, mostly in the feel category, the Q3+ never really did anything unexpected just felt a bit less confident, but I think my riding has changed a bit since getting the Ninja 400, so it's kind of hard to know what's what.

For context, my road riding will be dry twisty roads. Outside of that it will be track days and really entry level racing. So I guess I'm going for track/race performance, and "a little bit of road". 80/20~.

Good call on the flipping. I guess the tread is more about water displacement, so it wouldn't make a huge difference on dry road (I guess?).

on that note..I find the n400 to be a fantastic commuter, essentially making the world my racetrack. I'm also interested in tire (fixed the spelling for ya ;) ) recommendations!
Oh, definitely, if I was commuting the N400 would be great. It's like riding a scooter. I'm sort of tearing down the scooter feel and making it actual sport bikey though, once the clip ons come in it will probably start to feel like a real bike.
 

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the RS is a great street tyre,will give you lots and lots of grip and longevity ! as far as the track,I don't know your riding level or tracks you'll be riding at.most street tyres aren't made to reach a certain heat range so if you are a fast rider and track temps are high,then I wouldn't recommend these for the track unless you are a novice or just stepping up to inter.the GP is a great track tyre BUT not made for the small bikes.power cups is what I use for the track and I DO NOT flip tyres,depending on the track,if you have more rights or lefts than the other you are burning through that side faster so if you flip it now you have a very worn side to which can be a problem when you get on the gas at a certain apex.now even though these bikes (most of you that don't have them worked) don't have to worry about tyre spin,to me it's not worth it ! a new rear cost less than watching your bike slide skip tumble across the tarmac !
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
the RS is a great street tyre,will give you lots and lots of grip and longevity ! as far as the track,I don't know your riding level or tracks you'll be riding at.most street tyres aren't made to reach a certain heat range so if you are a fast rider and track temps are high,then I wouldn't recommend these for the track unless you are a novice or just stepping up to inter.the GP is a great track tyre BUT not made for the small bikes.power cups is what I use for the track and I DO NOT flip tyres,depending on the track,if you have more rights or lefts than the other you are burning through that side faster so if you flip it now you have a very worn side to which can be a problem when you get on the gas at a certain apex.now even though these bikes (most of you that don't have them worked) don't have to worry about tyre spin,to me it's not worth it ! a new rear cost less than watching your bike slide skip tumble across the tarmac !
For context, I've been using the stock tyres for 2500km, with 3 track days in there in the group just above the slowest. I don't have a great gauge, as the track doesn't supply times, but gut feel I tend to be around the top of that group outside of straight lines.

My plan for the year is to hit a bunch of track days, at least one a month depending on schedules, and sign up to some real entry level racing. We have a thing called Bracket Racing here, which is essentially qualifying, and then racing based on qualifying time brackets. It's basically a glorified track day, with a starting grid and harsher scrutineering rules. I put the bike on the road a little, but mostly for testing set up and high paced twisty runs to keep my feel for the bike between track days. I'll likely just let the registration lapse when it expires in June.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll call around and see if I can get Power Cup's here. Online they seem to be out of stock. I can grab a set of Power RS for $300 AUD (110/140) at the moment on sale, so my finger was hovering over the button, looks like Power Cup is around $450, but happy to pay the extra. Realistically I probably wouldn't be outpacing the Power RS even, given I never really had moments with the stock tyres, some movement coming on power, but nothing crazy, and they were worn at that point.

I run the Power GP's on my bigger bike and think they're great, I kind of assumed the Power RS were the same thing. Every spec on their website for the GP matches the spec for the RS. Surprised you were suggesting the RS is a great road tyre, while GP is track. Maybe there's some internal differences that isn't obvious from their doco.
 

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@dbrain "I run the Power GP's on my bigger bike and think they're great, I kind of assumed the Power RS were the same thing. Every spec on their website for the GP matches the spec for the RS. Surprised you were suggesting the RS is a great road tyre, while GP is track. Maybe there's some internal differences that isn't obvious from their doco. " well when you work pretty close with the Michelin rep,you get better insights on the tyres !! if you plan on racing then you need to run a dot race tyre,really no exceptions there ! IT'S CALLED PEACE OF MIND ! I have plenty of pictures of the RS sidewall destroyed and the cups are evenly worn
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
@jetpilot01 Ah not sure if that came out wrong, wasn't questioning what you were saying I was just surprised. I had assumed RS/GP were the same tyre essentially, just rebadged to fit in with their new line up.

Seems like the Power RS stock in Australia is "old", and Power Cup Evo is a 6 week wait. So now I'm back to the drawing board. I'm kind of tempted to just grab some Pirelli SC's and see how they feel. Seem to be what everyone is racing around here. Just a little concerned I'll burn through them very quickly, and price wise there's a fair increase.
 

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@dbrain the GPs have a different compound that are better equipped to handle higher heat ranges ! we have plenty of cups in the states.you deff can't go wrong with Pirelli ,just expensive ! try a pair of RS's and see how they hold up in your neck of the woods
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
@dbrain the GPs have a different compound that are better equipped to handle higher heat ranges ! we have plenty of cups in the states.you deff can't go wrong with Pirelli ,just expensive ! try a pair of RS's and see how they hold up in your neck of the woods
Ah, ok makes sense. The website itself didn't make that super clear short of being more willing to say that GP was a 50:50 road:track tyre.

I might do just that, smack on the cheap pair of RS's and see how it goes. SCs are pretty easy to come by, so if the RS really ends up being poor for my riding I can switch it up with fairly short notice.

Just waiting for some responses RE: SC pricing to see how big the gap is before committing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ended up going Pirelli SC1 110/70 front, SC2 140/70 rear. Found a coupon, and work gave me some random $100 voucher using a specific payment method, so it ended up being not a ton more expensive than the Power RS would have been. Will see how long they last, I'm hoping for 2 track days and 1 race at least, not sure how realistic that is. Probably end up rushing around trying to find tyres.
 

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Good choice! Tire life really depends on the tracks you ride on. The tracks I normally ride on don’t have a lot of grip but the tires will last almost a full season. The fronts definitely do. Maybe two rears.

edit: I’m pretty slow and easy on tires. YMMV. :)
 

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Good choice! Tire life really depends on the tracks you ride on. The tracks I normally ride on don’t have a lot of grip but the tires will last almost a full season. The fronts definitely do. Maybe two rears.

edit: I’m pretty slow and easy on tires. YMMV. :)
At Daytona I almost killed a new rear tire this weekend. Still has some rubber left but at the end of Sunday I could feel it sliding a bit more. I'm guessing it's at about 30-40% left. I'll probably use it for either a track day or another race weekend if I go to CMP, which has fresh pavement as of last summer so it's really smooth, but after that it'll be toast. If I run just track days I can make a rear last quite a few days, but if I'm racing and looking to get that last 1/2 second per lap out of it, the SC1 Pirelli doesn't last me more than 2 weekends usually. The fronts last a long time like you said. I think I used 2 fronts the whole last season.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I think the track I'll be primarily going to is pretty harsh on tyres, they repaved it in the last year, and "5" right corners to "1.5" left. Quotes because technically the track has 12 corners by the map, but I'd call most of them kinks at best. So I guess the real concern is that half of my tyre will be shagged very quickly.

I'm pretty slow though, and the race I'm doing is probably the most beginner race you could imagine. It's called bracket racing, basically you do a bunch of qualifying, and then are placed into races based on qualifying time brackets. So it's sort of like a track day, with a starting grid. Figure it's a good starting place before signing up to real class racing.

Going to be interesting to see how the N400 goes in the bracket racing context, i.e. I'll potentially be racing with a bunch of slow riders on fast bikes. Should be fun though, and so far at the tracks I've gone to the overtaking rules have been kind of annoying (no inside overtakes), so it'll be nice to ride freely. I get stuck behind people a lot on track days because I'm usually placed well for inside overtakes and instead need to slow down.

Just sorting out the last bits and pieces to make the bike past race scrutineering. Think as far as unknowns go, I'm down to "where do I vent the fuel/coolant lines to" as they can't just be under the bike as stock. The rest is just waiting for bits and pieces to come in the mail and drilling / lockwiring etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
As a follow up for anyone who cares, I ended up with the Pirelli SC1 110/70, 140/70. I ordered SC2 for the rear but their warehouse apparently had no stock, so I went with what I could get.
I had my suspension done as well, so it's hard to attribute improvements to one specific thing, but everything felt really nice. I improved my lap times by around 3s. Currently running 1:09.5's on a track that the class my bike would be in for racing has 1:03~ as a lap record. Have lots of areas I can improve on, but progress wise I've been dropping a fair bit of time every track day. Moving up to the next group for the next track day, which should give me some faster riders to tail, or at least some clear track.

Wear wise, after one day the profile has changed a bit, which is a bit annoying, but I think I should at least get another day... maybe two... out of them. Just going to feel a bit different turning left compared to right. I will have to monitor it and hunt down how to measure wear on these things. Wear indicators seem to be mostly around the middle of the tread rather than an indicator near the edges from what I can tell.

Going to have to find a track with mostly left corners and alternate :p
 

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Cool, sounds like your making good progress esp if your only 6 secs off the track record. A three second gain in a day is huge. Are you using warmers at this stage? I guess there's no real need if your not actually racing yet and your track temps will be warmer over there than here, so as long as you give them a few laps to warm up they should be OK.
The trade off for good sticky tyres like the SC's is the longevity. By the time you do one track day on one side, get the rear flipped and do another on the other side then you will have had the best of them. The 3rd and 4th days will be compromised and I'd say they'll be stuffed after that. Yes, the grooves are only there for water dispersal so if your riding in the dry then a flipped tyre with the pattern going the other way makes no diff. It's common practice to flip them. Once you get a flat spot on the side you will feel the tyre 'walking' as you get back on the power when exiting the corner with some lean angle on.
Keep having fun out there!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Yeah, It's progressing pretty well. The lap record I mentioned is for SSP300, so I'd imagine realistically a non restricted 400 would be getting better times again, but it's the only records I can find for the track, and if I proper race I'd be in that class/similar at the club level (with a 10,300rpm restriction). My actual goal was to get to 1:18, as the racing I want to do is bracketed based on speed, and 1:18+ was the slowest estimated bracket.

I'm running warmers, mostly just to go out there lap 1 with confidence, I know I technically don't need them but I feel like it gives me a couple of extra laps a session and a bit less head time being concerned about if my tyres are up to temp.

Good call on the flipping. Do you do this yourself? Any recommendations on tyre change gear?
I put these on myself, and balanced with a friends balancer, but that was a fair bit of effort with the shonky tools I have. Some small tyre spoons, and a large tyre lever. Definitely wasn't friendly breaking the bead on the outgoing tyres either.
 

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I'm running warmers, mostly just to go out there lap 1 with confidence, I know I technically don't need them but I feel like it gives me a couple of extra laps a session and a bit less head time being concerned about if my tyres are up to temp.

Good call on the flipping. Do you do this yourself? Any recommendations on tyre change gear?
I put these on myself, and balanced with a friends balancer, but that was a fair bit of effort with the shonky tools I have. Some small tyre spoons, and a large tyre lever. Definitely wasn't friendly breaking the bead on the outgoing tyres either.
That's good you are using warmers as you can push from the get go and maximize your time out there, as you said.

I don't flip the tyres myself. I (luckily) have a racing friend with a tyre machine that lives close by. At the big meetings there is always someone there with a tyre machine making a bit of money doing it. The Pro twins racing here is very regulated so your only allowed one set of tyres for qualifying and the three races. So we turn the rear tyre between race 2 and 3. Some of the guys do it them selves but it scratches your rims and mine are nice and shiny still lol.
 
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