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That one鈥檚 a little over done. It鈥檚 probably ok but because I don鈥檛 want to be liable if you crash and die I鈥檇 say get another one and do it over. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·

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That one鈥檚 a little over done. It鈥檚 probably ok but because I don鈥檛 want to be liable if you crash and die I鈥檇 say get another one and do it over. :)
I'll say it then lol

It'll be fine. I'd ride with it like that! I've done worse than that before lol....old ZX6R I had came with a clip type master link, but the clip was gone and the previous owner put wire in place of the clip on the chain link studs. After a while I notice one of them was gone. Rode it like that for 2 years! And that was a race bike! LOL
 

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Speaking of clip on master links, that鈥檚 all we鈥檝e used on our 400鈥檚. I like the convenience when doing gearing changes that require a different chain and also for cleaning and lubing it off the bike. Never had one issue with the clip but always put safety wire around it with the idea it would help keep the clip in place.

After racing last weekend I started doing my normal clean up and maintenance a couple days ago. And then I saw this! I reached down and pulled the side plate off with my fingers. No ****. I ordered a bunch of rivet type clips right then. :)

19255
 

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Close call lol! Well so far I've been putting it to the test. I checked it a few time and I don't think its going anywhere. I will say I can tell its got more get up with +2 rear. Now I just need the Tune or flash
 

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...I believe either plus 1 or minus 1 in front will will throw a code.
I can verify that going up even one tooth on the countershaft sprocket, from 14 (stock) to 15, does indeed throw a code 25. This is apparently due to a routine in the ECU that compares engine RPM to speedometer value when the clutch is out. It also takes away the gear indicator.

The stock overall ratio for 41-tooth rear and 14-tooth front is 2.93. Going to 15 in the front makes it 2.73, which is 7.3% different. The software apparently has an error window of 7%. As others have posted, the fault indication can be bypassed by jumpering the clutch lever sensor because the code ignores any RPM vs. speedo difference when the clutch is pulled in (which makes sense). Doing that, however, allows you to start the engine with the bike in gear and the clutch out, which clearly has the potential for expensive (and possibly painful) trouble.

Here's a handy chart that I keep in my garage. I could have gone with stock front and 39 rear to get 2.79 overall ratio, which would have given me most of the rev drop at highway speed that I wanted and stayed within the presumed software error window. But it's a lot easier and cheaper to swap out the countershaft sprocket, and I didn't realize that it was going to be such an issue.

sprocketratios.jpg



If I only knew how to hack the ECU software to widen the window to 10%, I'd do it! Hmmmm, maybe I should ask someone at Volkswagen... :)

All kidding aside, this to me is an example of engineers who don't ride solving a problem that doesn't exist with a tool that cannot be used by the product owner. I understand that one can imagine a scenario in which a failure mode might possibly be caught by this speed vs. RPM comparator, but really - in 50 years of riding motorcycles I have never once had or heard of anyone having a situation in which it would have been genuinely helpful. On the other hand, people change their gearing all the time.

It totally sucks to be forced to choose between deciding on the gear ratio I want and having a constant check-engine indicator (and no gear indicator). For what? A possible indication that my clutch might be slipping or my chain might have broken? I certainly don't need software to tell me that!

Unhappy.
 

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I can verify that going up even one tooth on the countershaft sprocket, from 14 (stock) to 15, does indeed throw a code 25. This is apparently due to a routine in the ECU that compares engine RPM to speedometer value when the clutch is out. It also takes away the gear indicator.

The stock overall ratio for 41-tooth rear and 14-tooth front is 2.93. Going to 15 in the front makes it 2.73, which is 7.3% different. The software apparently has an error window of 7%. As others have posted, the fault indication can be bypassed by jumpering the clutch lever sensor because the code ignores any RPM vs. speedo difference when the clutch is pulled in (which makes sense). Doing that, however, allows you to start the engine with the bike in gear and the clutch out, which clearly has the potential for expensive (and possibly painful) trouble.

Here's a handy chart that I keep in my garage. I could have gone with stock front and 39 rear to get 2.79 overall ratio, which would have given me most of the rev drop at highway speed that I wanted and stayed within the presumed software error window. But it's a lot easier and cheaper to swap out the countershaft sprocket, and I didn't realize that it was going to be such an issue.

View attachment 19617


If I only knew how to hack the ECU software to widen the window to 10%, I'd do it! Hmmmm, maybe I should ask someone at Volkswagen... :)

All kidding aside, this to me is an example of engineers who don't ride solving a problem that doesn't exist with a tool that cannot be used by the product owner. I understand that one can imagine a scenario in which a failure mode might possibly be caught by this speed vs. RPM comparator, but really - in 50 years of riding motorcycles I have never once had or heard of anyone having a situation in which it would have been genuinely helpful. On the other hand, people change their gearing all the time.

It totally sucks to be forced to choose between deciding on the gear ratio I want and having a constant check-engine indicator (and no gear indicator). For what? A possible indication that my clutch might be slipping or my chain might have broken? I certainly don't need software to tell me that!

Unhappy.
Just do the clutch lever cut out hack, change your gearing and be happy. :)
 

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I keep thinking all you guys having this trouble are using the wrong motor oil or tire pressure or something. On our two bikes we鈥檝e used from 40-44t on the rear and 14-15t on the front and never had any weird things happen with CEL or gear indicators.

What error code does it throw?
 

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I keep thinking all you guys having this trouble are using the wrong motor oil or tire pressure or something.
I'm not sure about your logic behind wrong motor oil, but my bike is still almost brand new and I keep my tire pressure at exactly the factory specified values. The value that triggers the problem is likely right at the edge of the software window, and slight variations in sensor data (speedo and tach) account for it.

What error code does it throw?
Code 25: Gearshift sensor, and the gear position indicator no longer works (two blinking dashes instead of a number, except for neutral).
 

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It was a joke. 馃槑
Oops! Sorry about the misunderstanding. Tire diameter actually would make a difference, so that wasn't a totally crazy comment. If the RPM vs. speedo value were right at the hairy edge of a software window, 5 psi just might be the difference between an error code and no code. Not sure, though. (I use 5psi because that's how overinflated both of my tires were when I get my brand new zero-miles bike home and checked them.)
 

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Just do the clutch lever cut out hack, change your gearing and be happy. :)
Yeah, I am going to do that but it doesn't make me happy. It sucks to bypass an actually useful thing in order to deal with a not-useful thing.

The software limit is undoubtedly due to the ECU needing a way to easily determine what gear you're in, but there should be a way to scale it for changing gearing (which is very common).

Oh well, I guess I'll just have to be super diligent about making sure the bike is in neutral before pressing the starter button from now on.
 

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I always pull the clutch when starting the bike, even if it is in neutral, then slowly release it to make sure I did not mess up. I don't know if everybody does that, but I was taught this habit and I believe it is important.
 

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I always pull the clutch when starting the bike, even if it is in neutral, then slowly release it to make sure I did not mess up. I don't know if everybody does that, but I was taught this habit and I believe it is important.
Yeah, that's going to be my new habit as of this very moment! I bypassed the clutch interlock five minutes ago.
 
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