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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Yes, Texas Hill Country was SUPERB motorcycle riding! LOTS of winding and hilly roads with little traffic. But, very HOT all summer (triple digits for those not acquainted with that area). Hard on tires and humans both!

Jim G
 

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Yes, Texas Hill Country was SUPERB motorcycle riding! LOTS of winding and hilly roads with little traffic. But, very HOT all summer (triple digits for those not acquainted with that area). Hard on tires and humans both!

Jim G
And slippy as [email protected] I figure if you can deal with the slippy roads in Texas you can be fast anywhere.

When I go up to the mountains in NC I'm amazed at how much more traction there is. :)
 

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Yes, Texas Hill Country was SUPERB motorcycle riding! LOTS of winding and hilly roads with little traffic. But, very HOT all summer (triple digits for those not acquainted with that area). Hard on tires and humans both!

Jim G
Yes it is hot but still worth it to me. I do a little over 350 miles there and back home (south of New Braunfels) if I ride all three.
 

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While we're on the tuning subject...yes I know this is a different bike, not a 400, but the principle is the same. This is my 2014 ZX6R with stock motor, only mods are a full exhaust and some kind of performance filter (I think K&N, but don't remember, since the previous owner, @jd41 put it in the bike). Red line was with the "mail in" flash done by someone who I believed to be a reputable tuner. Someone that's been working on bikes for many years and has been racing ZX6R's for the last few generations of the ZX6R model...so quite a long time. I got the same exhaust he runs on his bike so I was assured he had a good map to flash on my ECU. That AFR curve is a mess! Blue line is after I got done with it today. Also this is at WOT, but I tuned by TPS at various intervals from 100% to 40% and they all look very similar to this as far as smoothness of the curves. Since this is a race bike I didn't feel like spending too much timing tuning out the low end (below 6000 rpm) since it's not an area the bike spends much time in anyway, but I would've if it was a street bike.

This is why I think it's important to do it the right away, which is to get a custom tune on a dyno. That's really the only way to make sure your bike runs as good as it can...or runs how you want it to run. For example if you mainly care about fuel economy you can lean it out more, especially in the low/mid range (cruising speed RPM). My bike clearly ran very rich before, and although I suspected that based on the smell and a bit of popping from the exhaust, there was no way my "butt dyno" was going to detect just how bad it was. I was pretty oblivious to it the first few times I rode the bike.

Look at those gains at the top end! Up to 9% without changing anything on the bike, just from the tune!

19988
 

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The fuel used can make a huge difference in tuning. Not making excuses for the original tuner but yeah, it can make a difference.
 

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The fuel used can make a huge difference in tuning. Not making excuses for the original tuner but yeah, it can make a difference.
Absolutely. But he knew what fuel I used. And if his map was made for anything else other than 91 pump gas, you'd think he would mention that. But I don't think even a different grade of fuel can make such a big difference to where it drops the AFR to about 10 in some spots.
 

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Absolutely. But he knew what fuel I used. And if his map was made for anything else other than 91 pump gas, you'd think he would mention that. But I don't think even a different grade of fuel can make such a big difference to where it drops the AFR to about 10 in some spots.
No. That’s a huge difference.
 

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Yes, Texas Hill Country was SUPERB motorcycle riding! LOTS of winding and hilly roads with little traffic. But, very HOT all summer (triple digits for those not acquainted with that area). Hard on tires and humans both!

Jim G
Ok Jim, let’s say I’m sold… or at the least, intrigued.

Do you have a link to the specific eliminator you used? If you mentioned it, I don’t think I saw it. 🤔
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Ok Jim, let’s say I’m sold… or at the least, intrigued.

Do you have a link to the specific eliminator you used? If you mentioned it, I don’t think I saw it. 🤔
I think it would be rude for me to post an actual link on this forum as the forum is funded by its advertisers, but if you Google "Kawasaki Brad" you'll find it.

Jim G
 

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I think it would be rude for me to post an actual link on this forum as the forum is funded by its advertisers, but if you Google "Kawasaki Brad" you'll find it.

Jim G
Ok, got mine installed yesterday on my Z400 and took it for a ride.

I’ll be honest and say that I couldn’t discern a noticeable difference in performance, but I also wasn’t expecting anything major from 2-3%. Maybe on a dyno I’d see something definitive, as has been stated previously.

However (and this is really why I got it) the temp gauge stayed at 4 bars the entire ride. I’d regularly hit 5 bars before and I live in a very hot locale, so engines not getting too hot is important to me.

Thanks! 🙋🏼‍♂️
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Ok, got mine installed yesterday on my Z400 and took it for a ride.

I’ll be honest and say that I couldn’t discern a noticeable difference in performance, but I also wasn’t expecting anything major from 2-3%. Maybe on a dyno I’d see something definitive, as has been stated previously.

However (and this is really why I got it) the temp gauge stayed at 4 bars the entire ride. I’d regularly hit 5 bars before and I live in a very hot locale, so engines not getting too hot is important to me.

Thanks! 🙋🏼‍♂️
Yes, the engine coolant temperature drop was the big thing I noticed right away. That basically confirms the slight richening of the AFR.

Jim G
 

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And in case anyone in the good ol’ US of A is wondering, it translates to about $31 in Freedom Dollars. 🦅 🤠
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
Maybe the CAT caution was being TOO cautious

I've heard that a number of people are pretty interested in an O2 Sensor Eliminator for the reasons discussed above, but are really put off by my warning about running it with a CAT still in the exhaust system. In thinking about it some, I'm thinking my warning may be correct in theory, but there are other factors that make this specific concern lower on the list of things to be concerned about. Here's why:

- It's been pointed out to me that a 2 to 3% increase in AFR means only a 2 to 3% increase in the amount of fuel fed into the engine. That does not mean that all the extra fuel comes OUT of the engine as unburned fuel to be burned in the CAT. After all, the reason we want to enrichen the mixture in the first place is that the OEM tune is a bit too lean, particularly in the engine speed / load combinations we tend to spend most of our time in. So, a richer mixture gives us a more pleasant ride by BURNING at least some, and probably most, of the extra fuel fed in.

- In addition, 2 to 3% extra fuel is sort of "miniscule" when compared to the effects of putting a typical flash tune or a Power Commander onto an engine, as those devices are designed specifically to give notable differences in AFR that are much larger in many cases then what the O2 Eliminator does, and riders with ECU flashes and Power Commanders that are running a stock exhaust have not been reporting burned up CATS.

- I don't think I have EVER heard about any motorcycle burning up its CAT. So, apparently, CAT engineering must be pretty robust. If air cooled monster size V-twins don't burn up CATs hauling 800 lb or heavier cruiser or touring bikes around, I suspect our 400cc watercooled Ninja/Z 400 365 lb bikes are unlikely to do so.

- Me and others have actually shown that an O2 Eliminator LOWERS the temperature of our 400s, and I am thinking that doing so might greatly outweigh the relatively much smaller impacts of the AFR enrichment.

So, I'm thinking that maybe the caution about running an O2 Eliminator while still running a CAT may have been too cautious when all things are considered.

Jim G
 

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Maybe the CAT caution was being TOO cautious

I've heard that a number of people are pretty interested in an O2 Sensor Eliminator for the reasons discussed above, but are really put off by my warning about running it with a CAT still in the exhaust system. In thinking about it some, I'm thinking my warning may be correct in theory, but there are other factors that make this specific concern lower on the list of things to be concerned about. Here's why:

- It's been pointed out to me that a 2 to 3% increase in AFR means only a 2 to 3% increase in the amount of fuel fed into the engine. That does not mean that all the extra fuel comes OUT of the engine as unburned fuel to be burned in the CAT. After all, the reason we want to enrichen the mixture in the first place is that the OEM tune is a bit too lean, particularly in the engine speed / load combinations we tend to spend most of our time in. So, a richer mixture gives us a more pleasant ride by BURNING at least some, and probably most, of the extra fuel fed in.

- In addition, 2 to 3% extra fuel is sort of "miniscule" when compared to the effects of putting a typical flash tune or a Power Commander onto an engine, as those devices are designed specifically to give notable differences in AFR that are much larger in many cases then what the O2 Eliminator does, and riders with ECU flashes and Power Commanders that are running a stock exhaust have not been reporting burned up CATS.

- I don't think I have EVER heard about any motorcycle burning up its CAT. So, apparently, CAT engineering must be pretty robust. If air cooled monster size V-twins don't burn up CATs hauling 800 lb or heavier cruiser or touring bikes around, I suspect our 400cc watercooled Ninja/Z 400 365 lb bikes are unlikely to do so.

- Me and others have actually shown that an O2 Eliminator LOWERS the temperature of our 400s, and I am thinking that doing so might greatly outweigh the relatively much smaller impacts of the AFR enrichment.

So, I'm thinking that maybe the caution about running an O2 Eliminator while still running a CAT may have been too cautious when all things are considered.

Jim G
I read your initial statement about the cat and said to bugger with it, run it anyway. 🤷‍♂️ 🤣

Figure I’ll have traded up or be about to trade up before it becomes a problem, if it even does…
 
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