[HTXKratom]

Hi guys, i'm a new rider and i have been fine and comfortable with everything but downshifting.

Say you're approaching a red stop light in let's say 5-10 distance at 6th gear. What are the steps you take as you come to a complete stop at the stop light? I appreciate any help.

 

[Kiwi Rider]

Change down while your braking (using the front to do most of the stopping) then maybe pull clutch in and leave it in while you go through the last couple of gears to first.
You will have more bike control if you use engine braking in conjunction with the brakes rather than just pulling your clutch in when your in 6th and leaving it in while you come to a stop.

A classic newbie mistake in a panic stop scenario: Pulls clutch in and stomps on rear brake pedal for all its worth. Result: Rear end locks up and starts fish tailing and all control of the bike is lost.

Rev matching your engine and transmission speed when you change down (throttle blipping) is also good practice but I have found with the slipper assist clutch on the 400 being so good and soaking up any abruptness I have been getting lazy and not doing this.

 

[jonfonts]

I'm new to the motorcycle world as well, but if you know how to drive a manual car, you should understand the basics here as well. Like Kiwi pointed out, the slipper clutch is VERY forgiving. One thing to note is that if you do not fully engage your gears all the way through first before your stop, you might have an issue getting back into first gear again. If that happens, engage 2nd gear, let the clutch out just a bit, and try getting back into first; or just start off in second if you really want to. Other than that, just keep practicing and you'll learn the comfortable distance needed for you to go from 6th to 1st engaging every gear.

 

[Doroyce05]

REV matching is something I would really recommend on mastering. I know it seems hard to do at first and it will take time but once you start using it everytime you downshift, it will save you in the long run. When I come up to a red light, I start to just rev match 1 gear at a time until I get to a full stop. You do still apply braking but not as much since your engine is helping you slow down.

This also helps with being in the right gear when you do need to accelerate also. Sometimes the lights will turn green before you get to a full stop. When that happens and you have been rev matching down the gears, you will be in the right gear to accelerate without having to look for the correct gear.

In the end, do the best safe way for you to achieve your goal.

 

[Ninja P]

N400 gear shift is rotational so that if you stopped at 6th gear, flip the shift lever one more and it will go to 1st gear. Notice that when you are at full stop in 1st gear and you shift gear, it always go to neutral, thanks to quick gear finder of N400.

 

[Chazman]

N400 gear shift is rotational so that if you stopped at 6th gear, flip the shift lever one more and it will go to 1st gear.

Wow, didn't know that.
Do you mean lift the shift pedal up one more notch like shifting into an imaginary 7th gear which would be the 1st gear?

 

[Doroyce05]

Hmmm, I tried this and mine didn't go to 1st. I pulled it up from 6th and it stayed on 6th. After that, I pushed down and it won't down to 5th. At that point, I pushed it till I got to 1st.

Now, one thing I did notice is when you are at a stop in 1st gear the transmission will not go into 2nd. That is even with a good hard pull. Mine just goes to Neutral which is nice. I will try stopping at 6th gear then pull up for 1st.

 

[Chazman]

Hmmm, I tried this and mine didn't go to 1st. I pulled it up from 6th and it stayed on 6th. After that, I pushed down and it won't down to 5th. At that point, I pushed it till I got to 1st.

I will try stopping at 6th gear then pull up for 1st.

So, are you saying you will try doing the exact same thing again for the 2nd time?
I'm little confused if your 2nd try is any different than your 1st try.

Now, one thing I did notice is when you are at a stop in 1st gear the transmission will not go into 2nd. That is even with a good hard pull. Mine just goes to Neutral which is nice.

That means the Positive Neutral Finder is working! That's good!

 

[Doroyce05]

I was going to try to make sure that our gearbox has that option that "Ninja P" mentioned. The first time I tried it, it was very quick and I could have panicked since the light turned green and I was at a dead stop while being in 6th gear

Also, one thing I notice on these gearboxes is that you cant go to 6th gear if your bike is not going fast enough. Kinda cool to know that

 

[Chazman]

N400 gear shift is rotational so that if you stopped at 6th gear, flip the shift lever one more and it will go to 1st gear.

I found above statement to be NOT TRUE!

> I tried it numerous times and NEVER worked.

> I looked at the factory service manual and the gear shift drum Part # 13141-0597 drawing and it DOES NOT have open groves where shift forks/fingers ride on. The groves have CLOSED loops meaning you can't go from the 6th to the 1st directly.

Think about the consequence when accidentally shifting from 6th gear to the 1st while you are cruising at high speeds like 70+ mph/ 100+ kph if the bike really has the rotational gear shifting mechanism!

 

[atonyshepherd]

I found above statement to be NOT TRUE!

> I tried it numerous times and NEVER worked.

> I looked at the factory service manual and the gear shift drum Part # 13141-0597 drawing and it DOES NOT have open groves where shift forks/fingers ride on. The groves have CLOSED loops meaning you can't go from the 6th to the 1st directly.

Think about the consequence when accidentally shifting from 6th gear to the 1st while you are cruising at high speeds like 70+ mph/ 100+ kph if the bike really has the rotational gear shifting mechanism!

Yeah I was thinking about this post yesterday while I was on the freeway - what if I click up from 6th into 1st.....I'd be screwed. That seems like a huge safety concern, one that I'm almost positive Kawi wouldn't overlook.

 

[Doroyce05]

I found above statement to be NOT TRUE!

> I tried it numerous times and NEVER worked.

> I looked at the factory service manual and the gear shift drum Part # 13141-0597 drawing and it DOES NOT have open groves where shift forks/fingers ride on. The groves have CLOSED loops meaning you can't go from the 6th to the 1st directly.

Think about the consequence when accidentally shifting from 6th gear to the 1st while you are cruising at high speeds like 70+ mph/ 100+ kph if the bike really has the rotational gear shifting mechanism!

:smile: Just got back from lunch and tested this again and yes. IT IS NOT TRUE.

Now, while being at a complete stop, 1st to neutral works very well. I don't have to half pull the gear lever to avoid going to 2nd on this bike. If the bike is not moving and I do a hard upshift, it will go to neutral. Which is awesome!


Back to downshifting, rev matching is really fun to do with this bike.

 

[emudshit]

when coming to a stop i would usally kick down 2-3 times as i would cruise around in 3rd or 4th, takes 1 second to get form 4th to 1st, as im coming to the stop my clutch is held in as i glide the rest of the distance, at the stop i stay in 1st incase someone behind me is a nut case which gives me time to move away so dont stay in neutral. as Bruce lee once said "dont think, FEEL"

 

[Rider2112]

Similar here. Depending on how aggressively I'm slowing or stopping will determine whether I release the clutch, but I always downshift into the proper gear for the speed at any given time in case the evasive maneuver you're referencing is needed.

Always be ready to apply the go juice. That mentality has saved my butt more than once on the streets.

when coming to a stop i would usally kick down 2-3 times as i would cruise around in 3rd or 4th, takes 1 second to get form 4th to 1st, as im coming to the stop my clutch is held in as i glide the rest of the distance, at the stop i stay in 1st incase someone behind me is a nut case which gives me time to move away so dont stay in neutral. as Bruce lee once said "dont think, FEEL"

 

[Doroyce05]

I only go to neutral when I know traffic will not move for a while. On my commute, I tend to get stuck in traffic for 45 minutes. Take into consideration that my commute is only 13 miles from work to home. 5 miles of that commute takes about 30 minutes sometimes and the road is a 1 lane per direction without any intersections.

 

[jonfonts]

when coming to a stop i would usally kick down 2-3 times as i would cruise around in 3rd or 4th, takes 1 second to get form 4th to 1st, as im coming to the stop my clutch is held in as i glide the rest of the distance, at the stop i stay in 1st incase someone behind me is a nut case which gives me time to move away so dont stay in neutral. as Bruce lee once said "dont think, FEEL"

Yup, but like I said before, you need to keep in mind that if you don't shift into first before the stop, you will most likely have the transmission not want to go into first not matter how hard you try. Basically, if you come to a stop while still holding the clutch and without already shifting into first, you need to release the clutch while in neutral and re-engage it before trying to go into first again or else the transmission won't do anything.

 

[blackninja]

Yup, but like I said before, you need to keep in mind that if you don't shift into first before the stop, you will most likely have the transmission not want to go into first not matter how hard you try. Basically, if you come to a stop while still holding the clutch and without already shifting into first, you need to release the clutch while in neutral and re-engage it before trying to go into first again or else the transmission won't do anything.

I've noticed no such behavior with my transmission. I only have 50 miles on my bike atm but I've already cruised up to at least a 2 dozen intersections holding the clutch in with the bike still in 2nd or 3rd gear, downshifting to 1st after coming to a stop, smooth as silk. I'll update this post in a week or so if I notice any change in behavior as I get more miles on the bike.

I've noticed a couple of people on the forums complaining of transmission issues, I hope its not too widespread.

 

[jonfonts]

I've noticed no such behavior with my transmission. I only have 50 miles on my bike atm but I've already cruised up to at least a 2 dozen intersections holding the clutch in with the bike still in 2nd or 3rd gear, downshifting to 1st after coming to a stop, smooth as silk. I'll update this post in a week or so if I notice any change in behavior as I get more miles on the bike.

I've noticed a couple of people on the forums complaining of transmission issues, I hope its not too widespread.

Its not a bike issue, it's just how the transmission works. The difference in shaft speed (slows down) vs engine speed while holding in the clutch is what keeps the bike from shifting, so you need to realign that speed by engaging in neutral/any gear

 

[Chazman]

Its not a bike issue

I agree.
There is a simple way to shift down to the 1st gear from higher gears while completely stopped.

While stopped at a higher gear:
1. With the clutch lever let out (released), try to roll the bike with your feet down on the pavement either forward a backward. Bike would move a few inches and stop.
2. Then pull in the clutch lever and shift down to a lower gear.
3. And repeat the steps 1 & 2 until you hit the 1st gear.
Once you are used to this process, you can come down to the 1st gear in a breeze from high gears.

 

[emudshit]

Yup, but like I said before, you need to keep in mind that if you don't shift into first before the stop, you will most likely have the transmission not want to go into first not matter how hard you try. Basically, if you come to a stop while still holding the clutch and without already shifting into first, you need to release the clutch while in neutral and re-engage it before trying to go into first again or else the transmission won't do anything.

Lol what? mate I have ridden more bikes than there are hairs on my bags, and never had that problem, Maybe dont use Olive oil and instead try some nice motul full synth