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Discussion Starter #41
dbrain: I should have warned you about the exhaust clamp. It IS very sharp. I wore mechanics gloves. With the silicone sealant: Apply generously so that the sliding pieces can spread it into a layer with zero leakage. Don't make merely a "line" of sealant. Cover a large enough area (1/2" or so) so that as the pieces slide together, they can "smudge" it but still NOT create any complete in-to-out paths for the exhaust gas to get out.

Yes, do not remove the headers. Just loosen them a bit if you need to do so.

Also, If you started the bike up in the garage, and especially if the door was not open(it's winter!), the exhaust sounds MUCH louder, and "messier" INdoors than it will outdoors, because it reflects off the walls. (Like a high powered sound system in a too-small room). Remember what you heard if you ever rode a bike through a highway tunnel? Try starting it OUTdoors before buying / installing the longer baffle.

Jim G
 

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dbrain: I should have warned you about the exhaust clamp. It IS very sharp. I wore mechanics gloves. With the silicone sealant: Apply generously so that the sliding pieces can spread it into a layer with zero leakage. Don't make merely a "line" of sealant. Cover a large enough area (1/2" or so) so that as the pieces slide together, they can "smudge" it but still NOT create any complete in-to-out paths for the exhaust gas to get out.

Yes, do not remove the headers. Just loosen them a bit if you need to do so.

Also, If you started the bike up in the garage, and especially if the door was not open(it's winter!), the exhaust sounds MUCH louder, and "messier" INdoors than it will outdoors, because it reflects off the walls. (Like a high powered sound system in a too-small room). Remember what you heard if you ever rode a bike through a highway tunnel? Try starting it OUTdoors before buying / installing the longer baffle.

Jim G
I think you actually may have (without going back to original post and skimming). The silly thing is I cut my hand once initially and put gloves on, then when it came to the awkward install time I had the gloves off and forgot to put them back on. A good 7 or so cuts before I realised I was bleeding on things. I can never get used to fondling with bolts and things with gloves on, so I have a habit of taking them off real quick.

Thanks for the tips on sealant. Makes sense. My initial attempt I kind of made a line, because the tube they gave me was pretty small and I thought I'd get through it too quick. Going to go buy a big sized tube for round 2 and probably go too far the other way and drown the thing.

I went for a quick ride, figured no-one is going to die if its leaking a little, so it was a proper noise test. I guess maybe with it sealed up properly it will be a bit better.
Given how leaky the collector looked I'm kind of surprised it wasn't popping everywhere, bike felt ok as well, but I just went around the block so didn't ride it in anger.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
I think you actually may have (without going back to original post and skimming). The silly thing is I cut my hand once initially and put gloves on, then when it came to the awkward install time I had the gloves off and forgot to put them back on. A good 7 or so cuts before I realised I was bleeding on things. I can never get used to fondling with bolts and things with gloves on, so I have a habit of taking them off real quick.

Thanks for the tips on sealant. Makes sense. My initial attempt I kind of made a line, because the tube they gave me was pretty small and I thought I'd get through it too quick. Going to go buy a big sized tube for round 2 and probably go too far the other way and drown the thing.

I went for a quick ride, figured no-one is going to die if its leaking a little, so it was a proper noise test. I guess maybe with it sealed up properly it will be a bit better.
Given how leaky the collector looked I'm kind of surprised it wasn't popping everywhere, bike felt ok as well, but I just went around the block so didn't ride it in anger.
If you have removed your AIS, you took off the most common cause of popping.

What's your outdoor temperature right now. I am curious about how many bars you will see on your engine temperature gage. Once warmed up from a cold start, mine stays at 3, and only goes to 4 for a fraction of a kilometer right after a gas stop. But, my outdoor ambient temperature right now has been 5 to 10 degrees C = approx 42 to 52 degrees F. If yours is warmer, I'd be curious what your gage shows.

Jim G
 

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If you have removed your AIS, you took off the most common cause of popping.

What's your outdoor temperature right now. I am curious about how many bars you will see on your engine temperature gage. Once warmed up from a cold start, mine stays at 3, and only goes to 4 for a fraction of a kilometer right after a gas stop. But, my outdoor ambient temperature right now has been 5 to 10 degrees C = approx 42 to 52 degrees F. If yours is warmer, I'd be curious what your gage shows.

Jim G
I figured poor seals on the exhaust would cause some kind of popping, but yeah AIS is gone at the same time I installed the exhaust.

It was about 20c when I went out, got to 3 bars but it was only 2km of riding or something and I let it idle a bunch while I hovered around it, so not much of a test.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
. . .
It was about 20c when I went out, got to 3 bars but it was only 2km of riding or something and I let it idle a bunch while I hovered around it, so not much of a test.
On my 400, it is the idling and then shutdown at the gas station that caused the temporary increase from 3 bars to 4 bars.

Jim G
 

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Ok, to follow up. After redoing it my "exhaust" was still leaking. So I re-did it all again. What I did find out was that I was putting sealant on the wrong bit, the male tube rather than the female tube. I'm an idiot, and was making way more mess than needed and a worse seal, so I did it properly this time after cleaning my shame.

It's better now, but there is still a leak. I found out the end of the muffler, I think around the end of the carbon fiber is leaking. I think this was the same leak that motivated me to do it for a third time.
No idea how much this matters. I think I'm just going to pretend it's not happening unless the bike starts being weird. I guess I may be able to complain to Delkevic and see what they say.

I rode the bike for a decent slog, maybe 3 hours, before I did the third redo. I heard maybe two pops during heavy deceleration, would rather zero, but I was intentionally trying to make it happen and it was rare. So I think it's probably ok.

Temperature wise it was a 31c day, I think it sat at 4 bars most of the time, sometimes 3, I saw 5 bars when I was going through a crowded town putting along but it dropped back down once I was going again. I do not think the exhaust has particularly improved engine temps, nor has it made them worse.

Sound wise I'm still not a huge fan, although at speed it kind of gets washed away by wind noise etc. Generally when I'm not at speed I'm near suburbia where I don't want to be obnoxious. Hoping my oversized baffle rocks up soon so I can try it out. That and I have a track day I plan to do on the 14th and I'm paranoid about being over the 95db drive by limit.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
dbrain: We all make mistakes like your sealant error. Don't beat yourself up about it. If you have a muffler leak, you should contact Delkevic, give them your purchase date so they know the muffler is brand new, and ask for a replacement under warranty.Delkevic warrants its systems for 5 years! So, don't tolerate the imperfection. Do NOT try to "patch" the leak yourself as that would hurt your warranty case. You want it to be clear that the muffler came from the factory with the issue.

Jim G
 

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dbrain: We all make mistakes like your sealant error. Don't beat yourself up about it. If you have a muffler leak, you should contact Delkevic, give them your purchase date so they know the muffler is brand new, and ask for a replacement under warranty.Delkevic warrants its systems for 5 years! So, don't tolerate the imperfection. Do NOT try to "patch" the leak yourself as that would hurt your warranty case. You want it to be clear that the muffler came from the factory with the issue.

Jim G
I found this online: https://www.reddit.com/r/SVRiders/comments/44jk4f Same leak I have, so it sounds like it's expected.

The oversized baffle was delivered today. Figured it might be worth posting for anyone interested.
The size difference is fairly significant. Pretty much doubled. I'm no baffleologist so I do not know how effective this is or how much it would change the sound profile.

baffle.jpg

I used some sound recorder app before, and after installing the baffle. I revved the bike to around 6000rpm, at the front of my garage with the door open. So not ideal sound testing areas.
TBH I feel like I revved a little harder for the "after", but I only have my glancing at rev bar as proof.

Before
before-baffle.png

After
after-baffle.png


So if that's accurate and my revving was similar it's a slight drop but nothing crazy. Maybe at higher revs it matters more.
The average was lower, but I also left it recording longer after turning the bike off.

I will go for a ride shortly and get a "feel" for it rather than trying to be scientific with likely inaccurate testing.
For what it's worth idle seems around the same by ear, so I'll be interested to see what it's like at speed.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Next time I have my Z400 out, I'll try to listen and look for that "condensation relief" feature. But I did not notice it when I checked for leaks right after I did the installation. Can you feel it by placing your hand near the joint?

Jim G
 

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Discussion Starter #50
Looking at your 2 charts more closely now, I see that the AVERAGE sound is down by 3.2 db, which is a LOT. (It's a logarithmic scale, not a linear one!). That is signficant. From an online article on the decibel sound scale:

"
When this sound is doubled this equates to a rise of 3dB (decibels), using a logarithmic scale. In other words: every increase of 3 dB represents a doubling of sound intensity or acoustic power.
"

And it looks like if you line up the ends of the baffles properly, the longer one is only about 50% longer than the shorter one.

Jim G
 

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Next time I have my Z400 out, I'll try to listen and look for that "condensation relief" feature. But I did not notice it when I checked for leaks right after I did the installation. Can you feel it by placing your hand near the joint?

Jim G
I can feel it, but only in a specific spot on the right angle. Basically putting my hand flat as close to the end of the muffler (metal part) where the join is as possible without touching. Easier if your hand is wet and the exhaust is cold (colder air, more noticeable).

Went for a ride. The bike isn't silent, but I think it's quieter. I can still hear it more than I'd like in the suburban areas, but this is as good as it will get.
The bike rides as well as it did before, maybe pulls up to redline a bit quicker, either way I don't think the baffle change has affected performance. Did not hear any pops, so the third install hasn't made anything worse.

As long as I'm not pulled up on track days for being over the 95db limit I'm happy, and it has achieved the goal of not melting my boots when riding, which was the entire reason for the purchase.
Will check the torque tonight when everything has cooled down, as it's been through a few heat cycles, and call it done.
 

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Looking at your 2 charts more closely now, I see that the AVERAGE sound is down by 3.2 db, which is a LOT. (It's a logarithmic scale, not a linear one!). That is signficant. From an online article on the decibel sound scale:

"
When this sound is doubled this equates to a rise of 3dB (decibels), using a logarithmic scale. In other words: every increase of 3 dB represents a doubling of sound intensity or acoustic power.
"

And it looks like if you line up the ends of the baffles properly, the longer one is only about 50% longer than the shorter one.

Jim G
Sorry, missed adding this in previous reply. I don't know how accurate the average will be, as the tests I did were not exactly the same. I let the bike warm up a bit in the before baffle, so I wasn't revving it on a cold engine for e.g., and probably revved a couple of times more while deciding on the max rpm I wanted to test at. I was mostly looking at and thinking about peak, as that's the one that will bite me on track when I'm pinning it everywhere.
 

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Wow, what a thorough review of the Delkevic system.

I went with them as well, but did the 13" tri-oval canister. I also got the Norton Motorsports Race tune and stacks to go with the full exhaust.

I went with Delkevic for the same reasons. Past experience on another bike. I originally went with just the slip-on since when I bought my bike for the track built it was missing the OEM muffler.

Then I found someone selling the header for cheap. Then I waited to install until Norton had the BOGO deal on the race tune and velocity stacks.

17109


The difference in the way the bike runs with the stacks, tune, and full exhaust is nothing short of amazing. The engine runs much cooler. The lack of engine braking is awesome for easier more precise trail braking.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
Yes, I am considering the Norton tune, but not the stacks. I don't want any more intake noise, and I suspect that the velocity stacks would make the intake notably louder.

Jim G
 

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It is a good bit louder with the front of the box cut open. But then you can get the ram air 🤣
 

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Discussion Starter #56
It is a good bit louder with the front of the box cut open. But then you can get the ram air 🤣
Yeah, I get that, but I also remember when I had a previous motorcycle and made the intake more open to breath better, and the increased noise level was both too loud AND obnoxious - so bad that I went back to the OEM airbox.

Jim G
 
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