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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

I know this was disccussed alot and i read all threads before opening this one but i just dont understand... How are you supposed to keep the bike at 4k rpm range at the first 800km? Espically when in the owner manual they say to vary the rpm range and speed? I mean you dont even have area to work around with....I got my bike yesterday and havent ridden it yet (raining in the middle of may.... blah) but I seriously dont understand. can someone explain this to me. thanks.
 

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Hi,

I know this was disccussed alot and i read all threads before opening this one but i just dont understand... How are you supposed to keep the bike at 4k rpm range at the first 800km? Espically when in the owner manual they say to vary the rpm range and speed? I mean you dont even have area to work around with....I got my bike yesterday and havent ridden it yet (raining in the middle of may.... blah) but I seriously dont understand. can someone explain this to me. thanks.
You are not to ever exceed 4k rpm before 600 miles.. Its clear cut and dry...!

Every one has an opinion on this.. but this is the reason why your not supposed to exceed that number, there are numerous parts on your bike that are built to very tight tolerances and heat up at different rates then other parts - some parts where the outside diameter is very close to the inside diameter of the part they reside in expand faster when heated and cause even more resistance causing more heat to build up between the two matting parts which can cause the lubricant layer to thin to the point scaring can occur and or the parts become out of round from over heating and lead to excessive vibration..

This heating effect can also cause other parts to mate more efficiently and better seating of the parts, so your dammed if you do damed if you don't.

In the real world not on a race track the preferred method is going by the book, which is nearly impossible to do because you become the weak link in the traffic chain, traveling slower then surrounding traffic is not advised - you should never be in blind spots - remember if you cant see their eyes looking at their mirror they cant see you, in order to stay at or below 4k rpm you cant travel faster then 72 Km hr ever, and if your in traffic that is passing you by all the time you will constantly be in someones blind-spot, so stay out of fast moving traffic period.

It is very easy to follow the 4k rules if your not relying on the bike for daily transportation, but nearly impossible if your are relying on it to get from point A to B every day. Again every one has an opinion on this subject - Most all wrecks happen due to a major error in judgment - usually showing off or going to fast cornering, your new tires are slippery for the first 100 Km and can fail you in a tight turn - So go slow in turns for the first 100km no mater what..

Personally I would follow the book - except when I find my self in traffic that is moving faster then normal, then no matter what I'm keeping with traffic for safety - Just stay on roads you can travel to keep it under 4k.... hitting 5k once in a while isnt going to kill your bike, but for the first couple hundred Km keeping low will pay off in reliability. and there is another hidden issue with the 4k RPM - if your riding in traffic at 70 Km+ you have to shift really fast to stay withing the rpm range just to accelerate as traffic is doing, which for a new rider can cause allot of miss shifting because they haven't gotten use to the concept unless they have driven a manual automobile.

You have some very important choices to make Sir. The health of your bike is in the balance... I will only recommend riding in areas that you can abide by the 4k rule.

On the other hand I will say that many people including my self found the rule impractical if not impossible to go by. I did manage to ride the first 60-70 miles at 4k rpm, and ended up settling for 4.5k rpm after that till around the 200 mile mark then found that 5k was perfect for the riding on city streets till my first service at 550 miles. no highway speeds except 2 times under 7k rpms for 2 miles each..

Now I ride it on the highway like I stole the bike in short stints of 8k rpm to pass then back to 6.5k rpm the rest of the highway trip. Your bike can also help you chose an rpm it likes to run at - the point where you feel the least vibration is a great area to be in.

The last thing I will say is... if I had to do it all over again 5k RPM would be the magic number till my first scheduled service, still 4k rpm for the first 60 miles thou. that would have saved allot of headaches right from the start ( Safety, Reduce excessive shifting, better engine breaking to name a few )... but thats just me saying that - ultimately you will have to make the call.

Good Luck with the bike man - Safety first, Don't be in a rush..! If you are a completely new rider take a safety course - Just watch the CBR 300 video in the lounge area of this forum and you'll see why, find a large empty parking lot to practice in before you hit the congested streets.. find a riding buddy that can help you.
 

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I can't go any direction from my house for more than a few hundred meters without the speed limit being 100km/hr. So for me it's entirely impossible to not go over 4k RPM. I just take it as easy as I can until the first oil change, then drive it like I stole it.
 

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There's been a lot of discussion on some other threads regarding engine break in. Lots of varying opinions...

If you have not already, take a look at the posts in this thread here regarding hard vs soft break in and hopefully it addresses your questions.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
You are not to ever exceed 4k rpm before 600 miles.. Its clear cut and dry...!

Every one has an opinion on this.. but this is the reason why your not supposed to exceed that number, there are numerous parts on your bike that are built to very tight tolerances and heat up at different rates then other parts - some parts where the outside diameter is very close to the inside diameter of the part they reside in expand faster when heated and cause even more resistance causing more heat to build up between the two matting parts which can cause the lubricant layer to thin to the point scaring can occur and or the parts become out of round from over heating and lead to excessive vibration..

This heating effect can also cause other parts to mate more efficiently and better seating of the parts, so your dammed if you do damed if you don't.

In the real world not on a race track the preferred method is going by the book, which is nearly impossible to do because you become the weak link in the traffic chain, traveling slower then surrounding traffic is not advised - you should never be in blind spots - remember if you cant see their eyes looking at their mirror they cant see you, in order to stay at or below 4k rpm you cant travel faster then 72 Km hr ever, and if your in traffic that is passing you by all the time you will constantly be in someones blind-spot, so stay out of fast moving traffic period.

It is very easy to follow the 4k rules if your not relying on the bike for daily transportation, but nearly impossible if your are relying on it to get from point A to B every day. Again every one has an opinion on this subject - Most all wrecks happen due to a major error in judgment - usually showing off or going to fast cornering, your new tires are slippery for the first 100 Km and can fail you in a tight turn - So go slow in turns for the first 100km no mater what..

Personally I would follow the book - except when I find my self in traffic that is moving faster then normal, then no matter what I'm keeping with traffic for safety - Just stay on roads you can travel to keep it under 4k.... hitting 5k once in a while isnt going to kill your bike, but for the first couple hundred Km keeping low will pay off in reliability. and there is another hidden issue with the 4k RPM - if your riding in traffic at 70 Km+ you have to shift really fast to stay withing the rpm range just to accelerate as traffic is doing, which for a new rider can cause allot of miss shifting because they haven't gotten use to the concept unless they have driven a manual automobile.

You have some very important choices to make Sir. The health of your bike is in the balance... I will only recommend riding in areas that you can abide by the 4k rule.

On the other hand I will say that many people including my self found the rule impractical if not impossible to go by. I did manage to ride the first 60-70 miles at 4k rpm, and ended up settling for 4.5k rpm after that till around the 200 mile mark then found that 5k was perfect for the riding on city streets till my first service at 550 miles. no highway speeds except 2 times under 7k rpms for 2 miles each..

Now I ride it on the highway like I stole the bike in short stints of 8k rpm to pass then back to 6.5k rpm the rest of the highway trip. Your bike can also help you chose an rpm it likes to run at - the point where you feel the least vibration is a great area to be in.

The last thing I will say is... if I had to do it all over again 5k RPM would be the magic number till my first scheduled service, still 4k rpm for the first 60 miles thou. that would have saved allot of headaches right from the start ( Safety, Reduce excessive shifting, better engine breaking to name a few )... but thats just me saying that - ultimately you will have to make the call.

Good Luck with the bike man - Safety first, Don't be in a rush..! If you are a completely new rider take a safety course - Just watch the CBR 300 video in the lounge area of this forum and you'll see why, find a large empty parking lot to practice in before you hit the congested streets.. find a riding buddy that can help you.
Thank you for the comment. I am not a new rider, rather a novice. I have been riding and still riding a 16' CBR125 which i have been through alot with, including an accident and a few slides. So I have a few scratch marks on me which I take pride in :grin:


There's been a lot of discussion on some other threads regarding engine break in. Lots of varying opinions...

If you have not already, take a look at the posts in this thread here regarding hard vs soft break in and hopefully it addresses your questions.
Mate, when I said I read them all I meant that I read them all.. from A to Z.



Guess I will just take the time with it and will continue to ride the CBR while I take the Ninja a few kilometers trips now and then until I am 100% with it and pumped some mileage on it.

A few more questions!

1. As I am aware of every bike should come with a toolkit, mine didnt. I guess the dealer (not the actual shop, rather the company who brings Kawasaki In my country) took it to himself? I have heard stories about this dealer taking the toolkits...... Can someone tell me what did i lose?

2. Recommended oil is 10w40. there is a chart in the OM for higher climates which I dont understand how to read. At my country its usually 35 to 40 C in the summer... Should i use 10w40 or...?
 

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Not sure where you looked, but the toolkit should be under the seat (rider seat, not the pillion seat).
 

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First, let me repeat that I'm no tribologist. I'm just some dude on an Internet Forum who's read a lot about this particular topic and (for some reason) wants to share some of what I have learned.

FWIW, I don't think the 4K limit is super critical except maybe for the first 100 miles or so, then the max-rev limit progressively increases from there. Avoiding highway speeds until after the 600-mile service is a good idea though.


If you just want to relax without thinking about break-in too much, here are simple "TL;DR" guidelines you can follow:


  • Ride extra gently while the engine is warming up.
  • Don't apply excessive load but also don't baby it too much.
  • Avoid high RPMs and full throttle. [see note]
  • Mix in some "engine braking".
  • Vary the road speed and especially vary the engine speed.
  • Avoid lugging by matching your gear selection with the road speed.
  • Avoid carrying extra weight.
  • Avoid very short trips and very long trips.
  • Change the oil and filter at 600 miles and 2,000 miles.
[note] If you've been reading about the ultra-crucial importance of compression-sealing your rings to the cylinder surfaces ("seating the rings") and you want to do something about that, you can. Occasionally and briefly apply full throttle while at cruising speed. Follow each full-throttle spurt with some engine braking and easy cruising. A little of this treatment goes a long way; you don't need to flog your engine to seat its rings well.

@Mr Mike makes the main point, which is: You're trying to avoid galling and scarring that happens from excessive metal-to-metal contact between interfacing parts while those parts' mating surfaces are still in the process of conforming to one another.

The enemies are heat and, to a lesser extent, less-than-ideal lubrication. Lubrication is sub-optimal because the new parts are temporarily going to fit more tightly and less precisely than they eventually will after wear-in.

When mated parts are fully worn-in their contact pressure will be spread over a larger area and they'll remain separated from one another by an extremely thin film of oil.


You can see a different example of wear-in happening when you're bedding-in your new brake pads and rotors. The Conventional Wisdom Advice for bedding in street brake pads is to start out by taking it easy, and bed-in the pads gradually. You can visually inspect your rotors and see the progress as it's being made.


The wear-in process is forgiving. Put another way, you have something gain by being more methodical and moderate about it, but the bike is made strong enough to survive just about any treatment you throw at it.
 

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Break-In Trips

A smart thing you can do is take a ~100-mile (160-km) "Break-In Trip" or two during the break-in period. Here's a Break-In Trip pattern:


  1. Ride the bike "break-in style" for about 30 minutes.
  2. Idle the engine for a minute or so to relieve any hot spots.
  3. Turn the engine off and let it cool down.
  4. Go to step 1.
"Cool" in #3 cool means cool enough to touch, not necessarily cold. The amount of time it requires depends on ambient temperature. Typically 15 minutes should do it.

A Break-In Trip like this provides a lot of advantages over just random riding, not the least of which is getting the break-in done and out of the way so you can get on with normal riding. :grin:

In the area where I live it's necessary to do this on away from town where there are roads that have very little traffic. That way you can vary your speed and do engine braking without being an unpredictable doofus driver in traffic.

Taking Break-In Trips isn't my original idea. It came from a book.
 

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Dear Moderator ( or somone else ). The braek-in theme is very interesting and popular one. Can you make a chart graph here at the very top of/ in this thread with only one question "How do you brake-n your bike ? Soft or hard " It ( the graph ) could be interesting for statistical info and our one.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Not sure where you looked, but the toolkit should be under the seat (rider seat, not the pillion seat).
oi lmao :surprise: then i will check it by chance. I dont want to open the rider's seat just yet, the pillion seat is hard enough to close already...

First, let me repeat that I'm no tribologist. I'm just some dude on an Internet Forum who's read a lot about this particular topic and (for some reason) wants to share some of what I have learned.

FWIW, I don't think the 4K limit is super critical except maybe for the first 100 miles or so, then the max-rev limit progressively increases from there. Avoiding highway speeds until after the 600-mile service is a good idea though.


If you just want to relax without thinking about break-in too much, here are simple "TL;DR" guidelines you can follow:


  • Ride extra gently while the engine is warming up.
  • Don't apply excessive load but also don't baby it too much.
  • Avoid high RPMs and full throttle. [see note]
  • Mix in some "engine braking".
  • Vary the road speed and especially vary the engine speed.
  • Avoid lugging by matching your gear selection with the road speed.
  • Avoid carrying extra weight.
  • Avoid very short trips and very long trips.
  • Change the oil and filter at 600 miles and 2,000 miles.
[note] If you've been reading about the ultra-crucial importance of compression-sealing your rings to the cylinder surfaces ("seating the rings") and you want to do something about that, you can. Occasionally and briefly apply full throttle while at cruising speed. Follow each full-throttle spurt with some engine braking and easy cruising. A little of this treatment goes a long way; you don't need to flog your engine to seat its rings well.

@Mr Mike makes the main point, which is: You're trying to avoid galling and scarring that happens from excessive metal-to-metal contact between interfacing parts while those parts' mating surfaces are still in the process of conforming to one another.

The enemies are heat and, to a lesser extent, less-than-ideal lubrication. Lubrication is sub-optimal because the new parts are temporarily going to fit more tightly and less precisely than they eventually will after wear-in.

When mated parts are fully worn-in their contact pressure will be spread over a larger area and they'll remain separated from one another by an extremely thin film of oil.


You can see a different example of wear-in happening when you're bedding-in your new brake pads and rotors. The Conventional Wisdom Advice for bedding in street brake pads is to start out by taking it easy, and bed-in the pads gradually. You can visually inspect your rotors and see the progress as it's being made.


The wear-in process is forgiving. Put another way, you have something gain by being more methodical and moderate about it, but the bike is made strong enough to survive just about any treatment you throw at it.

Thank you!

I just rode it first time around the block, did about a 15km ride. All is good, except one thing - the engine heat indicator was on 5 bars out of 6.... is that normal?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Just did about another 20km around the neighborhood, kept it under 4k all the time when i have speed bumps and turnabouts every 30 to 40 meters... jesus christ this is hard to do. Standing at 32km now or 33. Think I will die before unleashing this bike true's potential as i cannot pass 70 kmh on six gear meaning i cant ride any normal roads.

And my ass is fried. Does anyone know any good aftermarket brand who makes softer seats for the 400?
 

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Don't worry so much about 4K RPM as a hard limit... Just don't abuse the bike too much before the first oil change, and DO vary the RPM's as much as reasonably possible.

If you have any problems, just tell the dealership Rider2112 on some forum said it'd be fine. :nerd:

I successfully kept mine below 4K for the first 5 miles.

:popcorn:


Just did about another 20km around the neighborhood, kept it under 4k all the time when i have speed bumps and turnabouts every 30 to 40 meters... jesus christ this is hard to do. Standing at 32km now or 33. Think I will die before unleashing this bike true's potential as i cannot pass 70 kmh on six gear meaning i cant ride any normal roads.

And my ass is fried. Does anyone know any good aftermarket brand who makes softer seats for the 400?
 

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You are not to ever exceed 4k rpm before 600 miles.. Its clear cut and dry...!

Every one has an opinion on this.. but this is the reason why your not supposed to exceed that number, there are numerous parts on your bike that are built to very tight tolerances and heat up at different rates then other parts - some parts where the outside diameter is very close to the inside diameter of the part they reside in expand faster when heated and cause even more resistance causing more heat to build up between the two matting parts which can cause the lubricant layer to thin to the point scaring can occur and or the parts become out of round from over heating and lead to excessive vibration..

This heating effect can also cause other parts to mate more efficiently and better seating of the parts, so your dammed if you do damed if you don't.

In the real world not on a race track the preferred method is going by the book, which is nearly impossible to do because you become the weak link in the traffic chain, traveling slower then surrounding traffic is not advised - you should never be in blind spots - remember if you cant see their eyes looking at their mirror they cant see you, in order to stay at or below 4k rpm you cant travel faster then 72 Km hr ever, and if your in traffic that is passing you by all the time you will constantly be in someones blind-spot, so stay out of fast moving traffic period.

It is very easy to follow the 4k rules if your not relying on the bike for daily transportation, but nearly impossible if your are relying on it to get from point A to B every day. Again every one has an opinion on this subject - Most all wrecks happen due to a major error in judgment - usually showing off or going to fast cornering, your new tires are slippery for the first 100 Km and can fail you in a tight turn - So go slow in turns for the first 100km no mater what..

Personally I would follow the book - except when I find my self in traffic that is moving faster then normal, then no matter what I'm keeping with traffic for safety - Just stay on roads you can travel to keep it under 4k.... hitting 5k once in a while isnt going to kill your bike, but for the first couple hundred Km keeping low will pay off in reliability. and there is another hidden issue with the 4k RPM - if your riding in traffic at 70 Km+ you have to shift really fast to stay withing the rpm range just to accelerate as traffic is doing, which for a new rider can cause allot of miss shifting because they haven't gotten use to the concept unless they have driven a manual automobile.

You have some very important choices to make Sir. The health of your bike is in the balance... I will only recommend riding in areas that you can abide by the 4k rule.

On the other hand I will say that many people including my self found the rule impractical if not impossible to go by. I did manage to ride the first 60-70 miles at 4k rpm, and ended up settling for 4.5k rpm after that till around the 200 mile mark then found that 5k was perfect for the riding on city streets till my first service at 550 miles. no highway speeds except 2 times under 7k rpms for 2 miles each..

Now I ride it on the highway like I stole the bike in short stints of 8k rpm to pass then back to 6.5k rpm the rest of the highway trip. Your bike can also help you chose an rpm it likes to run at - the point where you feel the least vibration is a great area to be in.

The last thing I will say is... if I had to do it all over again 5k RPM would be the magic number till my first scheduled service, still 4k rpm for the first 60 miles thou. that would have saved allot of headaches right from the start ( Safety, Reduce excessive shifting, better engine breaking to name a few )... but thats just me saying that - ultimately you will have to make the call.

Good Luck with the bike man - Safety first, Don't be in a rush..! If you are a completely new rider take a safety course - Just watch the CBR 300 video in the lounge area of this forum and you'll see why, find a large empty parking lot to practice in before you hit the congested streets.. find a riding buddy that can help you.
So this is my very first brand new zero miles bike. When I bought it last week all I was told was do not red line for any reason. No one told me not to hit over 4k so I've been around 7-8 for the bast week. Have I completely destroyed my engine?
 
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