[MRS]

It's happened now twice, I've gone out to my bike in the morning to ride to work and the bike won't start and the battery voltage is low. Both times it happened, the previous day was a normal commute to work and back (~30 miles roundtrip) and the bike was parked up in the garage normally.

I checked the voltage with the bike running and it's reading ~14.x volts, which suggests the charging system is fine. Any other ideas what could be causing the battery to go dead overnight? I previously had a 2008 Ninja 250 with over 60,000 miles on the original battery ?

Which Yuasa battery do I replace it with?

 

[krombopulosryan]

It'd probably be best to correct the problem and replace with a Shorai lithium battery. I think that's the battery Kiwi Rider went with

Did you try charging or going on a longer ride to get the battery charged?
30 miles roundtrip, so 15 mile commute to work. That's ~20 minutes if you are cruising, battery might need more time to fully charge.

What does your battery read after a 2 hour rest?

Have you done any mods recently that might affect you electrical system?

 

[xorbe]

OP would want to find the problem before changing batteries though!

 

[MRS]

It'd probably be best to correct the problem and replace with a Shorai lithium battery. I think that's the battery Kiwi Rider went with

I'm not concerned with weight savings. Are there other reasons to go with a lithium battery? They're more expensive.

Did you try charging or going on a longer ride to get the battery charged?
30 miles roundtrip, so 15 mile commute to work. That's ~20 minutes if you are cruising, battery might need more time to fully charge.

I initially left it on a Battery Tender overnight. And yeah, my commute is about 20 minutes each way, mostly at freeway speeds.

What does your battery read after a 2 hour rest?

Have you done any mods recently that might affect you electrical system?

I'll measure the battery after a rest tonight. No mods to the bike aside from a factory high seat

 

[krombopulosryan]

I'm not concerned with weight savings. Are there other reasons to go with a lithium battery? They're more expensive.

Sounds like you should just go with a Lead Acid battery, I stay away from the AGM jobs because they don't do well in high heat/stress conditions.

Lithium Batteries:

Exponentially higher number of discharge cycles
Shorter charge times
"Leak" slower when not in use
More resilient to rapid discharging

They don't like a deep discharge cycle though, can cause crystallization of the polymer which reduces battery life and increases the chances of short inside the battery.

 

[Kiwi Rider]

Sounds like you may have some sort of battery drain.
Any accessories been added?
Its a faff to do but if you disconnect the positive terminal at night then you will find out whether it's a battery drain or a faulty battery that's not holding its charge.

 

[MRS]

Sounds like you may have some sort of battery drain.
Any accessories been added?
Its a faff to do but if you disconnect the positive terminal at night then you will find out whether it's a battery drain or a faulty battery that's not holding its charge.

No accessories added, no. Will take a few nights' testing, but I'll take this advice and test (a) voltage fresh off the charger, (b) voltage in the morning with the battery connected, (c) recharge the battery and check voltage on a different morning with the battery disconnected.

 

[MRS]

I've completed Day 1 of the test, which was done with the battery still connected to the bike.

Charged the battery on Battery Tender Plus all day.
At 7:00 pm, measured voltage (still on tender): 13.20
Removed from the tender.
At 9:00 pm, measured voltage (still off tender): 12.71
Left off tender.
At 8:00 am, measured voltage (still off tender): 12.42
Turned on bike power and measured voltage: 11.79
Start bike and measured voltage: n/a (bike would not start)

I now have the battery disconnected from the bike and will repeat the steps and measurements described above.

 

[RedRider2k2]

If you say there's no added accessories (Lighting, USB outlets, Alarms, etc) then go ahead and complete your tests but I'm sure that battery is toast. Most likely shorted internally.

 

[xorbe]

Can you charge the battery and then let it sit 24 hours with it not hooked up to anything, what's the voltage after sitting for a day?

 

[Mr Mike]

I've completed Day 1 of the test, which was done with the battery still connected to the bike.

Charged the battery on Battery Tender Plus all day.
At 7:00 pm, measured voltage (still on tender): 13.20
Removed from the tender.
At 9:00 pm, measured voltage (still off tender): 12.71
Left off tender.
At 8:00 am, measured voltage (still off tender): 12.42
Turned on bike power and measured voltage: 11.79
Start bike and measured voltage: n/a (bike would not start)

I now have the battery disconnected from the bike and will repeat the steps and measurements described above.

11.8 volts is considered a dead battery.

To find out if the bike is drawing power from the battery with the bike key off.

Do you have a volt ohm meter...? If so it should have an " AMP - CURRENT " draw selection, you run the meter in series between the Positive battery post and positive battery cable, remove the pos cable from the battery and place it on a towel so it cant short to ground. place one meter lead probe on the positive battery post and the other meter lead probe on the positive cable. that way electricity has to flow through the meter and will register. That will tell you if the bike is drawing power from the battery or not.

leave your key in the off position, You will have to read the handout for your meter, make sure the meter has and is set to DC Current - a strait line with 3 dashes under it, the curved "sine wave" line is for AC. use a towel or card board to place the positive battery cable on so it cant touch ground and short out, only use the exposed meter probes and not your hands to touch the battery post and battery cable.

For comparison my 400 tested - Key off = 0 amps / Key on = 1.7 amps / Key on Bike running = not checked, starting the bike will exceed meters 10 amps max.

Testing your battery - removed from bike.

1. Charge at .75 to 1 amps for 10/12 hrs - or 2 amps for 4/5 hrs don't use a car charger that puts out more than 2 amp hrs, it will harm your battery & off gas ( rotten egg smell )
2. remove the charge leads from the battery and test the voltage... Should be 13+ volts.
3. 8 hrs later check the voltage again - should read in the 12.7v / 12.8v but not below 12.6v... below 12.6v after sitting for just 8 hrs means your battery is most likely toast, and
wont hold a charge, you can do the test twice if your not sure that the battery was fully charged the first time, its a small battery and should have fully charged the first time.

You'll need a meter to test if your chargers working properly, just like your battery it could be putting out proper Voltage but very little current ( Amps ). The test is more accurate slow charging the battery @ .75 to 1 amps over a longer period then fast charging at 2 amps.

 

[krombopulosryan]

remove the pos cable from the battery and place one lead on the positive battery terminal and the other lead on the positive cable. That will tell you if the bike is drawing power from the battery or not.

Exactly this! If you do see some current draw, go over to the fuse panel and pull fuses one at a time until the current drops. That will tell you where the leak is.

 

[MRS]

Alright, Day 2 results are in. For this test, I completely disconnected the battery from the bike, charged it with the Battery Tender, and made the same measurements. Same exact result. See attached measurements.

 

[MRS]

Do you have a volt ohm meter...? If so it should have an " AMP - CURRENT " draw selection, you run the meter in series between the Positive battery post and positive battery cable, remove the pos cable from the battery and place it on a towel so it cant short to ground. place one meter lead probe on the positive battery post and the other meter lead probe on the positive cable. that way electricity has to flow through the meter and will register. That will tell you if the bike is drawing power from the battery or not.

Unfortunately I don't have a meter with this function.

 

[Kiwi Rider]

Alright, Day 2 results are in. For this test, I completely disconnected the battery from the bike, charged it with the Battery Tender, and made the same measurements. Same exact result. See attached measurements.

If only all members were as thorough in their analysis!
Good job, you can now rule out a battery drain fault coming from the bike and yes, it would appear your battery is goosed.
Hard to know whether it is a faulty battery or something happened to it to cause it to break down.
Keep us posted.

 

[MRS]

Keep us posted.

Will do. I'll replace the battery and see if it happens again. Best case: I save myself a trip to the dealer. Worst case: That battery dies too and I have to take it to the dealer to figure out. That's a bet I'm willing to make for $70 ?

 

[krombopulosryan]

Will do. I'll replace the battery and see if it happens again. Best case: I save myself a trip to the dealer. Worst case: That battery dies too and I have to take it to the dealer to figure out. That's a bet I'm willing to make for $70 ��

How about you forgo the bet, and get yourself a cheap multi meter (it'll come in handy for more than just your bike) and do the test once you have your new battery.

It's the end of the work day here and my brain is pretty fried from bug testing, but I don't think you've absolutely ruled out a leak until you take the measurement. I'll hedge my bets again by saying this might be a brain fart, but it is still unclear what caused the battery to die in the first place.
It's either a faulty battery, a leak, or you left the ignition on are too embarrassed to admit it :grin:

EDIT: In case it isn't perfectly clear, that last bit is a joke.

 

[Mr Mike]

Will do. I'll replace the battery and see if it happens again. Best case: I save myself a trip to the dealer. Worst case: That battery dies too and I have to take it to the dealer to figure out. That's a bet I'm willing to make for $70 ��

Was the battery temperature elevated while charging - as compared to its surroundings...? Good indication of amp flow.

should be under warranty still right...? dealer pays for it..!

 

[MRS]

How about you forgo the bet, and get yourself a cheap multi meter (it'll come in handy for more than just your bike) and do the test once you have your new battery.

I took all of the measurements mentioned in earlier posts with a multimeter. Repeated same results with the battery completely disconnected from the bike -- hence, I've got some reason to suspect the issue is not a leak.

It's either a faulty battery, a leak, or you left the ignition on are too embarrassed to admit it :grin:

Faulty battery: Maybe
Leak: Not likely
Left on ignition: Done that before, but the bike was kickstart and it didn't seem to care ��

Like I said, I'm willing to take a chance on a new battery vs. taking the bike into a dealer and letting them faff with it for a week. If the second battery has an issue, then I'll deal with the dealer.

Does the 400 use the same Yuasa as the 300? YTX9-BS?

 

[Watcher905]

I took all of the measurements mentioned in earlier posts with a multimeter. Repeated same results with the battery completely disconnected from the bike -- hence, I've got some reason to suspect the issue is not a leak.


Faulty battery: Maybe
Leak: Not likely
Left on ignition: Done that before, but the bike was kickstart and it didn't seem to care ��

Like I said, I'm willing to take a chance on a new battery vs. taking the bike into a dealer and letting them faff with it for a week. If the second battery has an issue, then I'll deal with the dealer.

Does the 400 use the same Yuasa as the 300? YTX9-BS?

Yes, same as the 300.

This is a great time to get a lithium batt.

If the batt is not getting charged by the bike, probable cause is faulty R/R or stator. But highly unlikely, since the bike is new.